Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

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  • #16
    Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

    Originally posted by Fred McKim View Post
    Last Wednesday after Bob received the $35 fee from Nikolay, we decided he he would make contact with both players, the 4 NAC Members (Mark Dutton, Lyle Craver, Aris Marghetis, and Ilia Bluvshtein) who could serve, and the Arbiter (Pierre), Chief Arbiter (Bernard) and Organizer (Richard). The NAC were given these e-mail addresses (players and officials) so that they could contact them. I think reports were made available by Pierre and Richard. Along with Nikolay's appeal and the video, I would say no other contact was made with the e-mails we supplied. Presumably the NAC felt they didn't need any further information.

    Neither Bob or I intended to mislead Nikolay.

    I suppose different people will have different opinions if this constituted misconduct on anyone's part.

    Under the current NFP, it is quite possible that the Directors could overrule the NAC, but I don't have the expertise to know for sure.
    Originally posted by Fred Mckim
    Presumably the NAC felt they didn't need any further information.
    Nickolay was given additional advice from a FIDE Arbiter as he pointed out here. He was not afforded the opportunity to communicate this additional info given to him by the FIDE Arbiter to the committee on the basis that the committee would be contacting him as per Bob's communication with him.

    Originally posted by Fred Mckim
    Neither Bob or I intended to mislead Nikolay.
    Unfortunately it appears that perhaps, unwittingly, Nikolay was misled.

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    • #17
      Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

      I haven't read all the posts so perhaps someone has already answered this question: if this was a zonal championship, can Nikolay appeal the NAC's decision to FIDE? Just curious about where the buck stops.
      "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
      "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
      "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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      • #18
        Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

        I can hardly wait to see the NAC's full decision. Will it be considered an example of justice rendered, or will it be an example of legalism at its worst?
        "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
        "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
        "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

          Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
          I can hardly wait to see the NAC's full decision. Will it be considered an example of justice rendered, or will it be an example of legalism at its worst?
          Expediency (need to name World Cup nominee) and nothing that was done could be deemed 100% incorrect = uphold TD decision, and highly unlikely to be overturned by anyone/anything higher

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          • #20
            Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

            Originally posted by Sam Sharpe View Post
            Expediency (need to name World Cup nominee) and nothing that was done could be deemed 100% incorrect = uphold TD decision, and highly unlikely to be overturned by anyone/anything higher
            There are higher gods than Expediency. At whose feet does the NAC worship? :)
            "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
            "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
            "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

              In the other thread, I predicted the result would stand even though all parties made mistakes. Canadian chess is in shambles and has been for decades. This is just another example of the mess that has existed for decades.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

                Originally posted by Kerry Liles View Post
                The following was posted on the CFC forum and a link to it (without any commentary) was found in another thread here on ChessTalk. I thought this decision deserved it's own thread to highlight it more clearly...

                at:

                http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/sh...Closed-playoff



                Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

                It is my duty to inform the chess public that the national appeals committee has rendered a decision to deny Nikolay Noritsyn's appeal of the result of the playoff at the Canadian Championship and Zonal blitz playoff. The decision was 3 to 1. I believe the full decision and details of the reasoning will be released publicly very shortly but it was deemed in the best interest of chess in Canada that we end the uncertainty.

                The committee worked quickly to comply with the FIDE demand that we inform them of our representative for the World Cup by the extended deadline of July 10th negotiated by Hal Bond.

                I would like to thank the members of the committee for their work in reaching a prompt decision. Nikolay has indicated that he has more to say on this matter and I have offered him the opportunity to address the executive (board of directors) by email.


                Vladimir Drkulec
                President, Chess Federation of Canada
                I am the member of the NAC that voted against the denial of the appeal. I consider the denial of the appeal as a failure of NAC to ensure a fair play.
                The unfortunate situation stemmed from incorrect actions (to put it mildly) of all parties involved: Mr. Sambuev, Mr. Denommee (arbiter) and Mr. Noritsyn, in this order of incorrect actions. It is unfair to make one party (that erred the last) be responsible for the whole complicated situation.

                Ilia Bluvshtein.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

                  Originally posted by Ilia Bluvshtein View Post
                  I am the member of the NAC that voted against the denial of the appeal. I consider the denial of the appeal as a failure of NAC to ensure a fair play.
                  The unfortunate situation stemmed from incorrect actions (to put it mildly) of all parties involved: Mr. Sambuev, Mr. Denommee (arbiter) and Mr. Noritsyn, in this order of incorrect actions. It is unfair to make one party (that erred the last) be responsible for the whole complicated situation.

                  Ilia Bluvshtein.
                  Thank you for sharing that Ilia.

                  I have been struggling for a way to deal with the complications of this whole situation (without regard to any perceived intent on anyone's part) and I find your statement of why you voted against the denial of the appeal to be very compelling... We (all) can only wonder what the ramifications would be if the appeal had been granted: with respect to the qualification for the upcoming FIDE event(s) etc.

                  It does seem that the ruling makes Nikolay the only person who is penalized in any way (and in a rather large way too).

                  It is a complicated issue all around. Clearly it isn't quite as simple as playing a quick rematch or any sort of silly Armageddon playoff because time is apparently of the essence too.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

                    Thanks for sharing, Ilia!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

                      Originally posted by Ilia Bluvshtein View Post
                      I am the member of the NAC that voted against the denial of the appeal. I consider the denial of the appeal as a failure of NAC to ensure a fair play.
                      The unfortunate situation stemmed from incorrect actions (to put it mildly) of all parties involved: Mr. Sambuev, Mr. Denommee (arbiter) and Mr. Noritsyn, in this order of incorrect actions. It is unfair to make one party (that erred the last) be responsible for the whole complicated situation.

                      Ilia Bluvshtein.
                      I was hoping you were the dissenting member. I liked you from the first time i met you and my instincts were good. Thank you for having the decency to do the right thing. It is not always easy to be the odd man out.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

                        Regardless of my opinion, I suggest a subsequent match, with GM Sambuev putting his Canadian title on the line vs IM (obviously GM) Noritsyn. I am happy to organize the match, and provide a portion of the funds, assuming others join (Sid? Larry? Ian? Alex? etc.)...I fully understand that there is a timeline (I have a venue in mind), and we can all get passed the controversial situation with a traditional method of resolution. The players and others can email me or post here as to acceptance.

                        Brian.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

                          “Managers do things right. Leaders do the right thing.” -- Warren G. Bennis

                          The NAC has followed its interpretation of the rules. It has not done the right thing.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

                            Brian -

                            Hasn't the timeline passed? I thought the CFC had to name their representative by July 10 - wasn't that why there was such a rush to decide on the appeal? If I'm mistaken - I'm in favour of such a match (I assume "slow" games - let's say four games), and would be willing to help with the prize fund.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

                              Originally posted by Brian Hartman View Post
                              Regardless of my opinion, I suggest a subsequent match, with GM Sambuev putting his Canadian title on the line vs IM (obviously GM) Noritsyn. I am happy to organize the match, and provide a portion of the funds, assuming others join (Sid? Larry? Ian? Alex? etc.)...I fully understand that there is a timeline (I have a venue in mind), and we can all get passed the controversial situation with a traditional method of resolution. The players and others can email me or post here as to acceptance.


                              Brian.
                              All talk and no action. I thought Bator Sambuev had a match vs Eric Hansen in the cards.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Resolution of appeal to NAC on the matter of Canadian Closed playoff

                                the national appeals committee has rendered a decision to deny Nikolay Noritsyn's appeal
                                Originally posted by Ilia Bluvshtein View Post
                                I am the member of the NAC that voted against the denial of the appeal. I consider the denial of the appeal as a failure of NAC to ensure a fair play.
                                Sorry, but I don not understand what really happened.

                                After the receiving the appeal, the NAC simply threw it out without even going what happened, what should be done for future, didn't?

                                I needed to look into wiki to see what outcomes might be from appeal courts: " Generally, an appellate court's judgment provides the final directive of the appeals courts as to the matter appealed, setting out with specificity the court's determination that the action appealed from should be affirmed, reversed, remanded or modified." But not denied. WTF?

                                My crystal ball says the next thread will be " N.N. vs CFC in FIDE Ethics Court"

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