New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

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  • New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

    On an earlier thread, from a few days ago, two Appeals Committee rulings from Riyadh were presented and discussed, and in one of the posts, there is a link to a column on the changes in the Rules of Chess, coming into effect Jan. 1, 2018. Apparently, the Rules are revised every four years. The two appeals were quite amusing to read, actually. :)

    I am wondering if the CFC followed through with FIDE, and submitted for consideration, my suggestion for resolving the very bad situation from the 2017 Canadian Zonal. To review, in the playoff for that event, at blitz time controls, GM Bator Sambuev hid in his own hand the captured queen of opponent IM Nikolay Noritsyn, as both players were preparing to promote pawns in the endgame. When IM Noritsyn went to promote, all that was available to him was a rook, which he attempted to turn upside down to use as a Queen, without success (that rule has been changed), and he lost the game, along with the Canadian title, a place on the Olympiad team for 2018, a place in the 2017 World Cup, and significant prize money. The episode received intensive debate on this site a few months ago.

    I suggested, in a post on this site, that a player's captured pieces, once captured, should not be touched by an opponent, and indeed there is no reason for either player to touch his opponent's captured pieces, according to the Rules of Chess. If implemented, that change definitely would prevent a repetition of this notorious episode.

    So, did the CFC follow up on this? There would have been plenty of time to do so.

    Respectfully,
    Frank Dixon
    NTD, Kingston

  • #2
    Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

    Originally posted by Frank Dixon View Post
    On an earlier thread, from a few days ago, two Appeals Committee rulings from Riyadh were presented and discussed, and in one of the posts, there is a link to a column on the changes in the Rules of Chess, coming into effect Jan. 1, 2018. Apparently, the Rules are revised every four years. The two appeals were quite amusing to read, actually. :)

    I am wondering if the CFC followed through with FIDE, and submitted for consideration, my suggestion for resolving the very bad situation from the 2017 Canadian Zonal. To review, in the playoff for that event, at blitz time controls, GM Bator Sambuev hid in his own hand the captured queen of opponent IM Nikolay Noritsyn, as both players were preparing to promote pawns in the endgame. When IM Noritsyn went to promote, all that was available to him was a rook, which he attempted to turn upside down to use as a Queen, without success (that rule has been changed), and he lost the game, along with the Canadian title, a place on the Olympiad team for 2018, a place in the 2017 World Cup, and significant prize money. The episode received intensive debate on this site a few months ago.

    I suggested, in a post on this site, that a player's captured pieces, once captured, should not be touched by an opponent, and indeed there is no reason for either player to touch his opponent's captured pieces, according to the Rules of Chess. If implemented, that change definitely would prevent a repetition of this notorious episode.

    So, did the CFC follow up on this? There would have been plenty of time to do so.

    Respectfully,
    Frank Dixon
    NTD, Kingston
    SIMPLE SOLUTION: PAUSE the CLOCK and CALL THE ATTENTION of the ARBITER. This is too simple to understand for a professional chess player. You just know which button to pause the clock. No need for a resolution.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

      Originally posted by Mark Biong View Post
      SIMPLE SOLUTION: PAUSE the CLOCK and CALL THE ATTENTION of the ARBITER. This is too simple to understand for a professional chess player. You just know which button to pause the clock. No need for a resolution.
      Respectfully, I disagree. A player should not have to waste time searching for a piece and then decide as a result it is time to stop the clock and request arbiter intervention. This is not a practical solution with only seconds remaining on the clock to begin with. This definitely needs a resolution and Mr Dixon's proposal is reasonable.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

        Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post
        Respectfully, I disagree. A player should not have to waste time searching for a piece and then decide as a result it is time to stop the clock and request arbiter intervention. This is not a practical solution with only seconds remaining on the clock to begin with. This definitely needs a resolution and Mr Dixon's proposal is reasonable.

        How will the additional rule solve the issue when both queens are still on the board? Thus, it will be the useless rule complicating everyone lives: players will be not able to count captured pieces, arbiters will need to observe that nobody touches captured pieces. Are you ready to forfeit games for this infraction?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

          Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post
          Respectfully, I disagree. A player should not have to waste time searching for a piece and then decide as a result it is time to stop the clock and request arbiter intervention. This is not a practical solution with only seconds remaining on the clock to begin with. This definitely needs a resolution and Mr Dixon's proposal is reasonable.
          I always believe in keeping things simple. If you are in doubt, always ask! The only way to call for a timeout and call for assistance is by simply PAUSING the clock.
          Just like, if someone is in danger, call 911 emergency. If a machine is in trouble, find and press the emergency/power button to shut-off the machine. Knowing and pressing the PAUSE button does the same thing. Let the proper authority make the right decisions. Sometimes by doing something so simple relieve you of extreme pressure.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

            Originally posted by Egidijus Zeromskis View Post
            How will the additional rule solve the issue when both queens are still on the board? Thus, it will be the useless rule complicating everyone lives: players will be not able to count captured pieces, arbiters will need to observe that nobody touches captured pieces. Are you ready to forfeit games for this infraction?
            The purpose of the rule proposed by Frank is to clarify how captured pieces are to be dealt with. Queens that are still on the board are covered by other rules. You call Frank's rule an unnecessary complication. Do you think that having the credibility of our national championship called into question was a necessary complication. For everyone's benefit, please explain why it is ok to create a high-stress situation for your opponent by hiding (knowingly or not) his captured queen in your hand? Sambuev instigated the problem but apart from questions raised regarding his integrity he suffered no consequences. Explain that one.
            "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
            "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
            "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

              Originally posted by Mark Biong View Post
              I always believe in keeping things simple. If you are in doubt, always ask! The only way to call for a timeout and call for assistance is by simply PAUSING the clock.
              Just like, if someone is in danger, call 911 emergency. If a machine is in trouble, find and press the emergency/power button to shut-off the machine. Knowing and pressing the PAUSE button does the same thing. Let the proper authority make the right decisions. Sometimes by doing something so simple relieve you of extreme pressure.
              Originally posted by Mark Blong
              The only way to call for a timeout and call for assistance is by simply PAUSING the clock.
              All well and good except it is too late by then, precious time has been wasted searching for a non available Queen. The player is already prejudiced. Lets keep it simple only Queens are untouchable given the rarity of underpromotions.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

                Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post
                Lets keep it simple only Queens are untouchable given the rarity of underpromotions.
                Even more simple, have extra queens for each game.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

                  Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
                  The purpose of the rule proposed by Frank is to clarify how captured pieces are to be dealt with. Queens that are still on the board are covered by other rules. You call Frank's rule an unnecessary complication. Do you think that having the credibility of our national championship called into question was a necessary complication. For everyone's benefit, please explain why it is ok to create a high-stress situation for your opponent by hiding (knowingly or not) his captured queen in your hand? Sambuev instigated the problem but apart from questions raised regarding his integrity he suffered no consequences. Explain that one.
                  Stop the clock and ask the arbiter for the help. It is quite clearly written in the rule book. You better remember this when you'll need to promote your second queen.

                  It really worth to read once more the rule book as there were several important changes for blitz/rapid games (though, they have not solved all complications)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

                    BTW, It's high time to renew the rivalry. GM Bator Sambuev had registered long before any other masters at the 2018 Oakville Open. This is a perfect location and chess tournament for IM Nikolay Noritsyn to prove worthy as a World Cup Qualifier. Not too late to prepare and register I would think. During the tournament and for the gambling aficionados out there, if there is a possibility for them to play each other, whom do you place your bet? I definitely place my bet on GM Bator as he had beaten two top class GMs in the 1st round of the KO matches of the World Cup during his 2 consecutive tries. I hope Nikolay will register soonest for a possible rematch!?. This is a perfect time and place. My other wish is for Gary to broadcast live the first two board as committed at chess24 similar to the 2017 Armenian Genocide Chess Tournament.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

                      Originally posted by John Coleman View Post
                      Even more simple, have extra queens for each game.
                      As long as they are untouchable that works, extra Queens should always be available but should not be subject to being hidden.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

                        Originally posted by Egidijus Zeromskis View Post
                        Stop the clock and ask the arbiter for the help.
                        Yeah, well, so you stop your clock and look for an arbiter. You find one and when you return to the board with the arbiter your clock is running! The other player claims you never stopped it and you have no witness to prove otherwise.

                        Sound entirely just to you?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          nasty, but possible

                          Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post
                          Yeah, well, so you stop your clock and look for an arbiter. You find one and when you return to the board with the arbiter your clock is running! The other player claims you never stopped it and you have no witness to prove otherwise.

                          Sound entirely just to you?
                          ha. Nasty but possible, I suppose.

                          So, make a note of the times on the clock. And then go seek the arbiter. Or yell across the room and don't bother getting up at all.

                          It's my experience that players who make a nuisance of themselves, or simply cheat, also get the attention of players other than their direct opponent. And these others will be very good witnesses, if asked.

                          This actually happened to me in a major tournament in BC. I made a claim, which my opponent denied ever taking place. The other players adjacent, also annoyed by my opponent, provided the corroboration to the arbiter. I even got a few silent, but grateful, looks. And I won the ruling.

                          Everyone hates an asshole. lol.
                          Last edited by Nigel Hanrahan; Sunday, 7th January, 2018, 03:27 PM. Reason: yup
                          Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

                            Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post
                            Yeah, well, so you stop your clock and look for an arbiter. You find one and when you return to the board with the arbiter your clock is running! The other player claims you never stopped it and you have no witness to prove otherwise.

                            Sound entirely just to you?
                            You are not required to go and look for the arbiter. Just raise your hand and wave.

                            The arbiter may give some time to the player in your particular case.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: New Rules: Any changes to address problems from 2017 Canadian Zonal!?

                              Originally posted by Egidijus Zeromskis View Post
                              How will the additional rule solve the issue when both queens are still on the board? Thus, it will be the useless rule complicating everyone lives: players will be not able to count captured pieces, arbiters will need to observe that nobody touches captured pieces. Are you ready to forfeit games for this infraction?
                              Plus rules to govern where the captured pieces are put, that they are on the correct side of the board, when is the move completed (after the captured piece is put down or when the clock is pressed or both, what if done in the wrong order?) what happens if they are knocked over, what happens if the game next to you takes one of your pieces....

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