Final Results from the World Youth

[Ben Daswani]

Re: The facts say otherwise

How can we best indicate consistant contention at WYCC in a country where no one wins medals ? I came up with a stat. Number of games on the first 5 boards of any event, discounting the first two rounds due to the swiss. Any Canadian who attends WYCC knows there is a great deal of prestige and effort to get into even one of those games.

The topic was players who could contend at WYCC next year. Anyone still of age that is top ten on that stat is on any list in that regard. Period.

The fact that you think writing off players each year is ok simply because they are not #1 at the moment does illustrate a flaw in your character. Canadian chess can only thrive when it understands this as well, just look at the Olympiad you need 5 strong players to do well not one or two. The women's team for example can't depend on one player and come even close to top twenty placement.

Yeah, exactly. The topic was players who COULD contend NEXT year, not DID contend several years AGO.

[Carl Bilodeau]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

I didn't realize in the States, anyone could go. I thought it was top 3 there as well. I think for a country like Canada that anyone should be able to go. It's extremely valuable international experience and extremely fun. The more players we send the better our chances. Also. being eligible for a WYCC type of tournament would get people more interested in chess as it motivates them more. It really is the most enjoyable trip ever! If someone were about to quit chess and their last tournament was a WYCC, I would be really surprised if they decided not to quit and play more hoping to go the following year.

We will remember this trip and tournament forever. I have 5 kids and would like the 5 to attend such a tournament.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: The facts say otherwise

The women's team for example can't depend on one player and come even close to top twenty placement.

It's good they have at least one player to depend on. :D

[Duncan Smith]

The facts say otherwise

Okay, children, which of these is not like the others?

How can we best indicate consistant contention at WYCC in a country where no one wins medals ? I came up with a stat. Number of games on the first 5 boards of any event, discounting the first two rounds due to the swiss. Any Canadian who attends WYCC knows there is a great deal of prestige and effort to get into even one of those games.

The topic was players who could contend at WYCC next year. Anyone still of age that is top ten on that stat is on any list in that regard. Period.

The fact that you think writing off players each year is ok simply because they are not #1 at the moment does illustrate a flaw in your character. Canadian chess can only thrive when it understands this as well, just look at the Olympiad you need 5 strong players to do well not one or two. The women's team for example can't depend on one player and come even close to top twenty placement.

[Ben Daswani]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

I suppose if a large sponsor wanted to pay everything you could in theory see maybe Yuanling Yuan, Hazel Smith, and Nikolay Noritsyn go next year and all contend.

Okay, children, which of these is not like the others?

[Duncan Smith]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

I didn't realize in the States, anyone could go. I thought it was top 3 there as well. I think for a country like Canada that anyone should be able to go. It's extremely valuable international experience and extremely fun. The more players we send the better our chances. Also. being eligible for a WYCC type of tournament would get people more interested in chess as it motivates them more. It really is the most enjoyable trip ever! If someone were about to quit chess and their last tournament was a WYCC, I would be really surprised if they decided not to quit and play more hoping to go the following year.

I would say it's not how many players we send it's the quality of players we send that determines Canada's chances. Certainly the swiss introduces some luck factor that numbers can help. But in the more popular years the WYCC has very deep fields and only the very best Canadians have a legitimate chance to contend for top 10 places.

In rare categories we might have two Canadians in the same group with medal chances, like your group this year. So you fight for the funding at CYCC if you like. We went through the same thing in 2003 with Alina and Hazel playing a single game for funding. Alina lost and quit the game within a year. I'm not sure if the system worked well in that situation.

[Duncan Smith]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

No one takes advantage of this option mainly because FIDE overcharges the "extra" players and guests to subsidize the national champions and organizers. I suppose if a large sponsor wanted to pay everything you could in theory see maybe Yuanling Yuan, Hazel Smith, and Nikolay Noritsyn go next year and all contend. It just isn't very practical unless you have money to burn. None of them really need to prove anything at CYCC and the risk is always there you could play one bad game and lose and get no subsidies for your efforts.

The risk/reward just isn't great for past national champions.

[Eric Hansen]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

I didn't realize in the States, anyone could go. I thought it was top 3 there as well. I think for a country like Canada that anyone should be able to go. It's extremely valuable international experience and extremely fun. The more players we send the better our chances. Also. being eligible for a WYCC type of tournament would get people more interested in chess as it motivates them more. It really is the most enjoyable trip ever! If someone were about to quit chess and their last tournament was a WYCC, I would be really surprised if they decided not to quit and play more hoping to go the following year.

[Carl Bilodeau]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

The CFC encourages to play in CYCC and limits eligible players for WYCC. See Motion 2004-03 and 1012

Harder than I thought.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

A kid that can not (or do not want) go to the Canadian Championship can go anyway to the WYCC by his own means like any American kid.

The CFC encourages to play in CYCC and limits eligible players for WYCC. See Motion 2004-03 and 1012

1012. Participation in the WYCC
The following players are eligible to participate in the appropriate category of the WYCC:
(a) The winner of each category in the CYCC. If a winner is unable or unwilling to participate, the second place finisher in that category shall be invited to go in his or her place. If the second place finisher is unable to participate, the third place finisher in that category shall be invited to go in place of the winner. Players who qualify for the world event in this manner shall have their entry fee and air fare to the world event paid by the CFC.
(b) The second and third place finishers in the Tournament.
(c) The top rated player in each category, selected according with the rating guidelines set out in Article 1005, provided the player has played at least 20 CFC regular rated games since the previous year’s CYCC may request an exemption from the CFC Executive. [(Thorvardson/Denomee) see 04-05GL1.pdf]

[ 04-05GL2.pdf more details: Only the top-rated player in each age / gender group category may participate in the WYCC in a given year, at their own expense, after HAVING NOT taken part in the CYCC that year. (It had been the top two players allowed to go to WYCC at their own expense, after HAVING NOT taken part in the CYCC that year.) This change was made to emphasize the importance of the CYCC, and to encourage the top players to take part in it, enabling other players to be able to meet those top players in competition.]

[Carl Bilodeau]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

A kid that can not (or do not want) go to the Canadian Championship can go anyway to the WYCC by his own means like any American kid.

I presume that the Canadian Championship is a national competition that can also get you some money for the WYCC if your get first place. It is also a competition that tells you if you are really as strong as your think you are before you go to the WYCC. But I am sure everyone that wants to go to the WYCC can go.

For FIDE there is no limitation to the number of Additional players. We could send 7 kids per section without problems with FIDE. So for FIDE no problems.

Why would the CCF refuse a kid that wants to go? They would not refuse since it cost nothing to them and there is no limitation on the FIDE side and I don't imagine them fighting against a child will. CCF should not publicised this for the sake of the Canadian Championship and this is good.

Carl

[Duncan Smith]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

Hi Carl,
As your "I am not 100% sure but I think I heard the Americans say that their Federation pay the coaches but paid nothing for the players even for their number ones"

and I am not sure 100% too I heard the Americans say : they don't have go to compete the national youth chess championship, any chess player can go to WYCC as long as he/she pay by his/her own money.

If you are in the far East end, and go to the west end for CYCC or reversely, you have to pay air ticket and accomodation, food. Then if kid does not get the 1st place, it means we pay almost double for WYCC trip. It is the fact, we have to consider our finace and save a big net money for our kids' trip.
Problem: geo Canada is huge for chess tourn trip -
Advantage: we have rich resources and freedom - peace - happiness :) - best of the best.
Loc

My understanding several years ago is the Americans just declare their highest rated interested players the champions and they get the FIDE subsidies. England I know nominates their "champions" by committee.
England is highly organized, keeps costs controlled and has great coaching at the event itself. I'd prefer that model, even if my child failed to qualify as much because when she qualified it would be a quality experience and she could truly contend for a medal when she had the skills to do so.

The CYCC model only works well assuming unlimited financial resources. In other words, "rich" families can go every time. Those of us who were neither rich nor poor have to evaluate the seemingly excessive costs associated with repeat trips. And most of the real contendors at WYCC are repeat players and most are highest rated players in Canada in their category ( Eric is an exception ).

2005 to me was a joke. The investment families like us make to bring two players to Victoria BC, including one of the more high profile players, was large. Then we invest even more money to go to Belfort and the CFC messes us the whole trip. No real coach, botched airline tickets, a one hour commute from our hotel twice a day, this was not what we paid for at all.

So it is no wonder we have not attended a CYCC since, we got smarter eventually. I wouldn't recommend the CYCC for anyone at this point after their first trip to WYCC. Do it once, enjoy the experience then get out of the program. Maybe try twice if you have strong top 10 chances or some big way to reduce your costs.

The program will not change as long as parents and players continue to support it as is. Which might be what the majority wants, given leadership from Mr. McDonald and now Ms. Nadeau I don't think either understand what it takes to contend at WYCC and what the program needs to offer. So if the model remains everyone should keep in mind nothing in it is tailored to contending at WYCC, it is all about sending a huge team to the WYCC festival, socialize, hopefully everyone wins close to half their games.

Everyone is free to disagree, and the actual crowd at CYCC obviously buys into the program as is.

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

Hi Carl,
As your "I am not 100% sure but I think I heard the Americans say that their Federation pay the coaches but paid nothing for the players even for their number ones"

and I am not sure 100% too I heard the Americans say : they don't have go to compete the national youth chess championship, any chess player can go to WYCC as long as he/she pay by his/her own money.

If you are in the far East end, and go to the west end for CYCC or reversely, you have to pay air ticket and accomodation, food. Then if kid does not get the 1st place, it means we pay almost double for WYCC trip. It is the fact, we have to consider our finace and save a big net money for our kids' trip.
Problem: geo Canada is huge for chess tourn trip -
Advantage: we have rich resources and freedom - peace - happiness :) - best of the best.
Loc

[Carl Bilodeau]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

.... The USCF sent 3 GM's and a few other coaches to accompany their 28 players.
...

Eric,

I am not 100% sure but I think I heard the Americans say that their Federation pay the coaches but paid nothing for the players even for their number ones. If this is true it means that Americans prefers to help the GMs. Americans told me that at the WYCC tournaments last year and again this year. This would explain probably why Americans have only 4 more players than Canada. I recall an American mother last year which preferred a lot more our system since the Federation gave no money for her son.

Glad to see that you successfully found your plane at the airport in Vietnam where we split after the bus...

Congratulation again for your success.

Carl

[Jonathan Berry]

Re: Final Results from the World Youth

Eric,

Congratulations again on your lost-out-on-a-silver-medal-only-because-of-tiebreak performance, and for your leadership part in Canada's team silver medal.

In Calvia, Yan Teplitsky told me that coaching the Canadian contingent was great fun and "you should go too!". Hah!

I don't know how coaches have been financed. Many years, the CFC took in way more money from the CYCC than was needed to send the winners to the WYCC, so I'm guessing that it came from the CFC. Perhaps in other years, the parents got together and split the cost. For 2008, the CFC faced much greater costs because of the distance to Vietnam. I was surprised to find tickets (from Vancouver) available on regularly scheduled flights in the $1200 range, so the cost wasn't as great as it might have been, but yes, more than sending a player to Spain. Also there seem to be permanent new expenses, such as the organizer's fee.

Your idea of a Junior Chess (coaching) fund is a good one, and would not detract from the Olympiad effort. It might activate new sources of money.
... as an "interested observer", not in any way representing the CFC !