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That link is for Ontario provincially incorporated organizations like the OCA and not the CFC which is federally incorporated. The rules are different for federally incorporated non profit corporations.
As I said Vlad I do not know the specifics of the legal structure of the CFC so I have no plans to consult an attorney. No doubt you seem convinced that you have the whole thing beat legally.
I inherited a legal structure which has been in place for something like thirty eight years. You are the one making an extraordinary claim with respect to this particular FIDE election.
Allowing any type conflict of interest is bad form for any non profit, legal or not legal, especially if it can be easily avoided. Simply pick someone who has no interest in the matter and allow them to be the voting delegate. Of course if the CFC and Hal are openly for Kirsan then no conflict exists as far as casting the actual vote is concerned but the whole thing would still smell pretty bad. Even a "bumpkin" like you can figure out why.
This bumpkin is puzzled as to why there would be a conflict in Hal Bond voting if we voted for Garry but not if we voted for Kirsan.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Monday, 12th May, 2014, 03:07 AM.
Important !
This article explains in a general way the law that applies in Quebec. This article is not a legal opinion or legal advice. To find out the specific rules for your situation, consult a lawyer or notary.
I would say this is a very public dispute already. Just make sure you spell my name right.
As I said Vlad I do not know the specifics of the legal structure of the CFC so I have no plans to consult an attorney. No doubt you seem convinced that you have the whole thing beat legally. Allowing any type conflict of interest is bad form for any non profit, legal or not legal, especially if it can be easily avoided. Simply pick someone who has no interest in the matter and allow them to be the voting delegate. Of course if the CFC and Hal are openly for Kirsan then no conflict exists as far as casting the actual vote is concerned but the whole thing would still smell pretty bad. Even a "bumpkin" like you can figure out why.
From your link:
Important !
This article explains in a general way the law that applies in Quebec. This article is not a legal opinion or legal advice. To find out the specific rules for your situation, consult a lawyer or notary.
Can a director be given permission to act in the interests of a person or group outside the organization?
Yes, in some special situations, an organization can let directors officially act in the interests of another person or group. The organization can include this permission in its by-laws, and include a description of situations in which directors can act as representatives of a particular person or group.
From the CFC bylaw:
FIDE REPRESENTATIVE
8F. The FIDE (Federation Internationale des Echecs) Representative shall be an officer of the corporation and a member of the Executive, and shall:
i) be the official liason between the Chess Federation of Canada and FIDE;
ii) be the FIDE Zone President for Canada;
iii) deal with matters relating to the FIDE Americas Continent;
iv) if funding is available, at minimum, attend the annual FIDE Congresses;
v) work with the Public Relations Coordinator in dealing with mainstream media on chess promotion as it relates to FIDE issues. [see Motion 2010-16]
It seems to me that you are alleging a conflict within FIDE and not within the CFC and that it would apply to almost every delegate to the FIDE general assembly. Just in case anyone is unclear I have asked Hal to disclose to the executive the exact nature of his relationship to FIDE as an arbiter just in case there is any member of the board who is unaware of this relationship.
It seems to me that by the time we arrive at the FIDE election the CFC will be governed under the new NFP act and its rules with respect to what constitutes a conflict of interest.
i am not sure about the legal structure of the CFC thus the link may not apply. In any event, even if you find legal outs the optics are very poor and will not serve the CFC well in something that likely will become a very public dispute.
I would say this is a very public dispute already. Just make sure you spell my name right.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Monday, 12th May, 2014, 02:37 AM.
Conflicted out how and under which law? Is it your contention that no arbiter can be our FIDE rep?
I don't know anyone associated with the Russian consulate or embassy so how could they facilitate or arrange meetings or introductions to the CFC which is quite decentralized in any case.
I will keep that in mind.
I will have to agree with you on that. I've met the self-professed smartest man in Windsor. Being the dumb bumpkin that I am, I'm not sure what that agreement with your statement is worth.
The issue is not arbiters but someone who is receiving payments from FIDE. Under incoporated Not For profit organizations the laws are very clear. http://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsule...rest-directors
i am not sure about the legal structure of the CFC thus the link may not apply. In any event, even if you find legal outs the optics are very poor and will not serve the CFC well in something that likely will become a very public dispute.
By the way as much as you like and trust Hal Bond like it or not he receives payments from FIDE for his work as an arbiter and as such he is conflicted out from being the person who actually casts the vote at the FIDE meeting.
Conflicted out how and under which law? Is it your contention that no arbiter can be our FIDE rep?
Did you know that the Russian consulates and embassies around the world help Kirsan with his campaign by arranging meetings and introducing him to executives of chess federations?
I don't know anyone associated with the Russian consulate or embassy so how could they facilitate or arrange meetings or introductions to the CFC which is quite decentralized in any case.
My point is that Kirsan continues to work very closely with the Russian government.
I will keep that in mind.
One thing I have learned in life Vlad is that when i run in to people that THINK they are smarter then everyone else usually the opposite is true.
I will have to agree with you on that. I've met the self-professed smartest man in Windsor. Being the dumb bumpkin that I am, I'm not sure what that agreement with your statement is worth.
The only irony I will ever see is if you end up endorsing Gary. I am not holding my breath.
Interesting article. A little over eight years old and two FIDE elections have passed in the interim. The reliance on astrologers concerns me as the pronouncements on George Bush as Ghenghis Khan probably concerned the New Yorker. The first mention of aliens but with no indication that he claimed to have visited with them. Thank you for sharing that.
While there were indications of starvation and forced migrations in the past under Stalin I did not see any mention of starving people in that article.
And Putin was a close friend of the Obama administration until his adventures in the Ukraine. I get it. He is not a good man.
No of course not.
I am elected to represent the best interests of the CFC members. I take that responsibility seriously. I have talked to more CFC members than have voted in this admittedly unscientific poll. I have also talked many parents of CFC members. This poll and the resulting discussion have revealed to me what certain specific members and non-members believe. This was what I put up the poll to uncover. In addition to the one on one discussions in person and in email I have talked to a number of Gary supporters including people who are involved in his campaign, including you. I have not talked to anyone from Kirsan's campaign.
That article was in the run up to the Kok election which Kirsan won. Later he defeated Karpov. Chess is a tough sell to corporate sponsors when they can use chess as a prop for free. I think we have had more luck with governments.
Your argument equating Putin (the accomplished hockey player who just scored six goals against professional Russian players in an exhibition game) with Kirsan is what I called illogical. I am not trying to insult you. I am much more rude when I am trying to insult people.
I have been listening to my own membership. The ones who I have talked to have not been telling me the same thing that you have been telling me. I do understand that you are used to getting your way. I have a thick skin and do not take offense easily.
I don't think so but if there is some novel definition of insult that I am not familiar with I suppose it is possible. If so I am sorry for insulting you unintentionally. So far what I have seen on offer is that you might support Canadian chess again IF Gary wins the FIDE election. Lets assign probabilities. Lets say that in the event that Gary wins there is a ninety five percent probability that you will support Canadian chess. Now I have to look at the other product side of the equation and assign a probability to Gary winning. This is where we are running into a problem.
You do always get your way, don't you? I am sorry if I am approaching this conversation as if I am someone who has a right to an opinion and has to represent the best interests of the CFC and its members. I'm sorry if not accepting your commands is somehow insulting to you. My suggestion is that you leave the persuasion end of things to people who are not so easily insulted.
Someday the irony in all of this situation will come out.
By the way as much as you like and trust Hal Bond like it or not he receives payments from FIDE for his work as an arbiter and as such he is conflicted out from being the person who actually casts the vote at the FIDE meeting.
Did you know that the Russian consulates and embassies around the world help Kirsan with his campaign by arranging meetings and introducing him to executives of chess federations? My point is that Kirsan continues to work very closely with the Russian government.
One thing I have learned in life Vlad is that when i run in to people that THINK they are smarter then everyone else usually the opposite is true. The only irony I will ever see is if you end up endorsing Gary. I am not holding my breath.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Sunday, 11th May, 2014, 08:35 PM.
Vlad thank you for taking the time to reply. THere is a huge amount of documentation about journalists and others critical of Krisan that were murdered in Kamylkia, while Kirsan was governor in Kamylkia. You can start by reading articles about him in such respected publications as THe New Yorker. http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200...urrentPage=all
Interesting article. A little over eight years old and two FIDE elections have passed in the interim. The reliance on astrologers concerns me as the pronouncements on George Bush as Ghenghis Khan probably concerned the New Yorker. The first mention of aliens but with no indication that he claimed to have visited with them. Thank you for sharing that.
While his fellow citizens in Kamylkia starved Kirsan spent millions of dollars on a chess palace.
While there were indications of starvation and forced migrations in the past under Stalin I did not see any mention of starving people in that article.
He is an agent and close friend of Putin and the fact that another governor was selected in his region has not changed this. Incidentally Putins law that he can "coronate" governors is another one of his acts of dictatorship that Kirsan benefited from albeit he was not governor permanently but "legally" even Putin himself had to take a back seat as prime minister for a period of time.
And Putin was a close friend of the Obama administration until his adventures in the Ukraine. I get it. He is not a good man.
Because Canada did not suffer for openly supporting Karpov does not automatically make Kirsan a good person.
No of course not.
You continually talk about "logical fallacies" and this is one of several in your reply.
You have made no effort to refute my assertion that you do not consider the preferences of the CFC membership as a decisive factor or even the poll here that you yourself put up.
I am elected to represent the best interests of the CFC members. I take that responsibility seriously. I have talked to more CFC members than have voted in this admittedly unscientific poll. I have also talked many parents of CFC members. This poll and the resulting discussion have revealed to me what certain specific members and non-members believe. This was what I put up the poll to uncover. In addition to the one on one discussions in person and in email I have talked to a number of Gary supporters including people who are involved in his campaign, including you. I have not talked to anyone from Kirsan's campaign.
Chess has suffered by a lack of corporate sponsorship world wide compared to many other sports in a large part because of the reputation of the likes of Kirsan who even yourself have to consider far fetched excuses to rationalize his shortcomings. The rest of the world outside of chess does not buy these far fetched scenarios.
That article was in the run up to the Kok election which Kirsan won. Later he defeated Karpov. Chess is a tough sell to corporate sponsors when they can use chess as a prop for free. I think we have had more luck with governments.
You want to call me illogical for suggesting that you consider listening to your own membership.
Your argument equating Putin (the accomplished hockey player who just scored six goals against professional Russian players in an exhibition game) with Kirsan is what I called illogical. I am not trying to insult you. I am much more rude when I am trying to insult people.
I have been listening to my own membership. The ones who I have talked to have not been telling me the same thing that you have been telling me. I do understand that you are used to getting your way. I have a thick skin and do not take offense easily.
Vlad, you insult me for offering to support Canadian Chess?
I don't think so but if there is some novel definition of insult that I am not familiar with I suppose it is possible. If so I am sorry for insulting you unintentionally. So far what I have seen on offer is that you might support Canadian chess again IF Gary wins the FIDE election. Lets assign probabilities. Lets say that in the event that Gary wins there is a ninety five percent probability that you will support Canadian chess. Now I have to look at the other product side of the equation and assign a probability to Gary winning. This is where we are running into a problem.
I put my money where my mouth is many times over the years and the only thing you have to offer here are glib replies? How dare you!
You do always get your way, don't you? I am sorry if I am approaching this conversation as if I am someone who has a right to an opinion and has to represent the best interests of the CFC and its members. I'm sorry if not accepting your commands is somehow insulting to you. My suggestion is that you leave the persuasion end of things to people who are not so easily insulted.
If the president of the USCF who supports Gary can't persuade you, your own membership can't persuade you, and my offers to support Canadian Chess can't persuade then i really don't have anything else to say.
Someday the irony in all of this situation will come out.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Sunday, 11th May, 2014, 07:45 PM.
Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President
Just the very idea that you would even think of :
Loss of zone status, loss of arbiter assignments, increased scrutiny and obstruction of player and arbiter titles are things that might be forseen. I don't think that these would result from Kirsan himself as everything that I have heard from people who are close to him or people who know people who are close to him is that he is not one to operate in that manner. Some of those around him on the other hand....
as vindictive possibilities for failure to vote the right way should tell you what the moral choice is.
I can understand why one might not be happy with Kasparov as a candidate and have doubts as to his ability to govern properly. But, to my mind, it's not really a choice.
We'll soon see. Like in chess, winning in chess politics is everything.
I never assume the past predicts the future. Yet you're telling me the history of FIDE of not retaliating and presumably projecting that to the future.
The CFC should do what's best for Canadian Chess and the players and let the Americans look after themselves. Something they are quite good at doing without our help. I don't know what's in it for the Americans but the CFC should figure out what's in it for themselves for supporting one candidate over another.
National federations, like nations, don't have friends. They have interests. Something Vlad seems to understand.
Yes and you can rest assured what's best for Canadian Chess is that the CFC supports Gary Kasparov. I have seen no evidence at all that Vlad understands that, unless you consider alienating sponsors of the game in Canada as something that is good for Canadian Chess. The CFC is the ONLY federation among most civilized democratic nations that did not make an endorsement to Garry yet. I find that disgusting. Do you really believe that FIDE will sanction all those countries that did not support Kirsan in the far from certain eventuality that he wins????
On the other hand if Gary wins I am highly confident that I can get Fide's support in addition to my own in all kinds of interesting programs for Canada. That is of course predicated on the idea that the CFC endorses Gary that already is getting too late.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Sunday, 11th May, 2014, 01:18 PM.
Gary, you are clearly in the minority in this poll. Your assertion about America's support of Gary ensuring that he will not win is unsubstantiated nonsense.
Gary's campaign has been going very well as he visits countries from around the world and he has been a huge help in promoting chess in schools in many of these countries through is charitable foundation.
Fide in its history has never retaliated against a country depending on which way they voted including in the last election where Canada supported Karpov.
We'll soon see. Like in chess, winning in chess politics is everything.
I never assume the past predicts the future. Yet you're telling me the history of FIDE of not retaliating and presumably projecting that to the future.
The CFC should do what's best for Canadian Chess and the players and let the Americans look after themselves. Something they are quite good at doing without our help. I don't know what's in it for the Americans but the CFC should figure out what's in it for themselves for supporting one candidate over another.
National federations, like nations, don't have friends. They have interests. Something Vlad seems to understand.
From what I've seen in correspondence chess, where Canada is in a zone with the U.S. and some other nations, the Americans look after the Americans. What's left is crumbs.
With the Americans supporting Garry it should almost ensure he will not win.
However distasteful the executive finds the candidates, they should do what is necessary to ensure Canada maintains Zone status and as much international and title opportunities for the members as it is possible to do.
I voted for none of the above in that poll. I'm also not a member which is a measure of the value of the poll on a neutral message board.
Gary, you are clearly in the minority in this poll. Your assertion about America's support of Gary ensuring that he will not win is unsubstantiated nonsense.
Gary's campaign has been going very well as he visits countries from around the world and he has been a huge help in promoting chess in schools in many of these countries through his charitable foundation.
Fide in its history has never retaliated against a country depending on which way they voted including in the last election where Canada supported Karpov.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Sunday, 11th May, 2014, 02:05 PM.
If the president of the USCF who supports Gary can't persuade you, your own membership can't persuade you, and my offers to support Canadian Chess can't persuade then i really don't have anything else to say.
From what I've seen in correspondence chess, where Canada is in a zone with the U.S. and some other nations, the Americans look after the Americans. What's left is crumbs.
With the Americans supporting Garry it should almost ensure he will not win.
However distasteful the executive finds the candidates, they should do what is necessary to ensure Canada maintains Zone status and as much international and title opportunities for the members as it is possible to do.
I voted for none of the above in that poll. I'm also not a member which is a measure of the value of the poll on a neutral message board.
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