Trump - The NEW, New Thread

[Ben Daswani]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

Belzberg, there's no point us discussing things further. I consider you ignorant, obstinate and decidedly un-woke. I can only take solace in the fact that your views are dying and, for the most part, not held by the youth of this country. I simply wonder if you'll realize you're on the wrong side of history before it's too late.

Here's one more tidbit for you: https://www.romper.com/p/is-conversi...practice-53633

It's not my fucking job to educate your conservative ass so I won't be anymore. Have fun with your Clinton conspiracy theories and delusions about the extent to which minorities are oppressed in this country.

[Ben Daswani]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

Racism of the type shown by Daswani who also rages against white people causes 2 university professors to lose their jobs.

Yep, I'm racist towards myself. Ya got me!

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/...p-funding.html

Finally racism is going to be punished.

Washington State's Evergreen College to lose 24 million dollars in funding.

There is a storm coming.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

The democrats appear to be running for cover as the world collapses around them. Now we have top Democrats turning on Obama and Loretta Lynch and calling for an investigation.

The Supreme Court voted 9-0 to overturn the bulk of the restraining orders put in place by the 9th circuit and the 4th circuit on the refugee and six country ban. This is like the last 50 pages of a Stephen King book where the villains' plans collapse and one by one they get their comeuppance. Balance is returning to the universe.

Trump had a good day now yesterday.

Fake news causes 3 CNN reporters to lose their jobs.

Racism of the type shown by Daswani who also rages against white people causes 2 university professors to lose their jobs.

Even Democrats are now fired for saying they wish the House Whip had been killed.

The Trinity Lutheran decision must have Madelaine O Hare rolling over in her shallow grave.

Will cats soon be marrying dogs?

[Tom O'Donnell]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news...dykes-vs-kikes

[Sid Belzberg]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

Seriously, Belzberg, let's cut the shit. You're partisan as fuck. You're a Republican. You support Republicans

That is a conjecture on your part. By the way you are completely wrong.

4)The obvious corruption of the DOJ with respect to the Clinton email investigation completely goes against the separation of powers between the legal and executive branches of govt.
That's an overstatement but I won't even get into that. How does it negatively affect Americans? I've already explained how Trump's election has harmed specific groups of Americans.

You may wish it was an overstatement but it is not. It does not surprise that you don't want to get into it because it exposes the rot of the democratic administration under Obama. A corrupt justice system obviously has a horribly negative affect on all Americans. Until this is fixed all of the other problems you bring up will not be resolved. You can't build a house on top of a swamp! in the previous thread i addressed the conversion therapy issue and the people of color issue , what do you have to say about those points?

Borrowing Drkulec's tin hat for this one, I see. http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp

Snopes??... you must be kidding...they went from credible to completely biased pro Clinton rag in the last few years. http://yournewswire.com/snopes-caugh...stions-raised/
Answer two questions where is Seth Rich's computer that was taken at the time of his murder? Where are Vince Foster's files also stolen at the time of his murder.?

I already know you don't like Democratic economic policy and that that influences your vote. I'll say it one more time:

"Sadly, the people of color being murdered in the streets by police, the women without decent access to medical procedures, the homosexuals being tortured in conversion therapy, and the trans people facing daily violence and discrimination aren't so lucky."

Sound economic policy that creates jobs is integrally related to allowing the US to have the wherewithal to properly address the issues you have brought up. The employment rate is inversely proportional to the crime rate. Less crime means less tragic incidents between law enforcement and minorities or any other group. Creating resources so that people have the opportunities to gain skills that will allow them to be employed and lead a life with dignity and meaning is a far more sustainable approach as opposed to the ghettoizing of minority groups and paying for their food and shelter as has been the democratic approach since the 1950's.
I consider the BLM a political scam and especially detest their anti Israel stance. A few botched arrests does not mean that people of color are being murdered in the streets by policemen and is terrible generalization against a group that deserves our gratitude for a performing an all to often thankless and difficult job.

Denying women decent access to medical procedures (I assume you are referring to abortions) is an issue that is decided by the courts regardless of a politicians religious beliefs.

You keep talking about conversion therapy but have shown me no examples of a case where the authorities have knowingly failed to protect anyone from someone being forced to undergo such a "therapy" against their will. Reference please. Is this a real issue or a criticism of a religious belief that Pence holds?

i am not aware of govt sponsored violence against transpeople or authorities failing to protect them against violence. The administration is probably wrong about access to washrooms but if this is the only issue I disagree with i can live with that.

[Ben Daswani]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

Again as previously stated the repercussions of this extend all the way back to America as we have seen with numerous tragic incidents of terror in the last decade.

Yes, primarily by white, Christian men. What does that have to do with the Middle East? The Democratic policies are far more geared towards disarming white, Christian radicals than the Republican policies are.

1) The Democrats have supported a UN anti Israel party line that considers Israel a Apartheid genocidal state.

Yes, more on the Middle East. It must be nice to be able to focus on the Middle East when deciding whom to vote for. As I've already stated:

"Sadly, the people of color being murdered in the streets by police, the women without decent access to medical procedures, the homosexuals being tortured in conversion therapy, and the trans people facing daily violence and discrimination aren't so lucky."

2)Empowering the worlds biggest State sponsor of terror, Iran with $150 billion dollars on the strength of a promise that Iran will only temporarily suspend it's nuclear weapons program, (a promise that the country most in the most peril (Israel) has no faith in but never the less the deal is pushed through.

See above.

3)Pro Trump is a mischaracterization of my position, it is more anti Hillary then anything else.

Pro-Trump... relative to Clinton. But whatever. This is a semantic debate.

4)The obvious corruption of the DOJ with respect to the Clinton email investigation completely goes against the separation of powers between the legal and executive branches of govt.

That's an overstatement but I won't even get into that. How does it negatively affect Americans? I've already explained how Trump's election has harmed specific groups of Americans.

5)The economic policies of the last 8 years have not produced the strong results in terms of market performance and job growth that the policies of the current administration have produced in the last 6 months.

I already know you don't like Democratic economic policy and that that influences your vote. I'll say it one more time:

"Sadly, the people of color being murdered in the streets by police, the women without decent access to medical procedures, the homosexuals being tortured in conversion therapy, and the trans people facing daily violence and discrimination aren't so lucky."

6)The wake of mysterious deaths (33!)surrounding the Clinton's for the last 30 years is disturbing. Since when was Trump ever suspected of direct murder?

Borrowing Drkulec's tin hat for this one, I see. http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp

Seriously, Belzberg, let's cut the shit. You're partisan as fuck. You're a Republican. You support Republicans. You come up with ex post facto conjecture about murders and DOJ corruption to justify your votes, but you no doubt supported McCain and Romney over Obama as well, and Bush over Kerry and Gore. You're pro-markets (so am I) and pro-Israel (so am I). But I don't support politicians based on those issues. You know why?

"[T]he people of color being murdered in the streets by police, the women without decent access to medical procedures, the homosexuals being tortured in conversion therapy, and the trans people facing daily violence and discrimination aren't so lucky."

[Sid Belzberg]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

So your pro-Trump stance is based entirely on international relations? I asked for specific ways in which Clinton's election would have harmed Americans and all you could muster was vague fears about Iran bombing Israel. Is that really it? You're a one-issue bloke?

As previously outlined these fears are not vague and Iran certainly has made no secret of their intentions numerous times. Again as previously stated the repercussions of this extend all the way back to America as we have seen with numerous tragic incidents of terror in the last decade. As stated above those are just a few things but I have many issues some of which I have already stated in other threads.
1) The Democrats have supported a UN anti Israel party line that considers Israel a Apartheid genocidal state. Israel is considered an occupier of post 1967 Borders by the Democrats. I consider this outrageous as Jerusalem was declared an international zone in 1948 and was immediately occupied by Jordan in contravention to the then established borders and subsequently liberated by Israel in 1967 so that all faiths Christians, Jews and Islams could worship there and not exclusively Islams. Clearly the genocidal apartheid group is Hamas that calls for the murder of Jews and the complete destruction of Israel and no Jews allowed on their territories ever.

2)Empowering the worlds biggest State sponsor of terror, Iran with $150 billion dollars on the strength of a promise that Iran will only temporarily suspend it's nuclear weapons program, (a promise that the country most in the most peril (Israel) has no faith in but never the less the deal is pushed through.

3)Pro Trump is a mischaracterization of my position, it is more anti Hillary then anything else.

4)The obvious corruption of the DOJ with respect to the Clinton email investigation completely goes against the separation of powers between the legal and executive branches of govt.

5)The economic policies of the last 8 years have not produced the strong results in terms of market performance and job growth that the policies of the current administration have produced in the last 6 months.
6)The wake of mysterious deaths (33!)surrounding the Clinton's for the last 30 years is disturbing. Since when was Trump ever suspected of direct murder?
I could post many other issues about why between the two bad choices Clinton was even worst but the above is a good start. So no, to answer your question I am not a one issue bloke but any one of those issues alone was enough to dissuade me from supporting Clinton.

[Ben Daswani]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

Just these few things make me want to throw up when I hear about the Democrats.

So your pro-Trump stance is based entirely on international relations? I asked for specific ways in which Clinton's election would have harmed Americans and all you could muster was vague fears about Iran bombing Israel. Is that really it? You're a one-issue bloke?

[Ben Daswani]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

As for people like Ben Daswani and Paul Bonham you should stop being minions of Satan. There is no future in it. Best case is that you spend eternity alone in the darkness forever or you are extinguished out of existence. Worst case is that you are tormented forever. Your alternative theology will not be taken into account in deciding your sentence.

I have, without a doubt, never in my life encountered anyone as self-righteous as you are. I can only remain thankful that you have absolutely no effect on the political landscape; you do nothing besides talk tough online. Never change, Drkulec.

[Bob Gillanders]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

Enough with the religion debate please, this is a politics thread!
Trump's support continues stubbornly around the 40% level, but the focus should be on health care this week.
The House passed their health care bill earlier. Trump first praised it, then branded it "mean".
The Senate version is up for a vote this week. It seems equally "mean" to me, we should see how the CBO scores it today.
Either version is not what Trump promised on the campaign trail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VA2y5jpGwc

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

Vlad, I took the liberty to re-order your responses to put them into better priority. Also, thanks for taking me off your ignore list long enough for me to decimate your arguments and "logic". It has been a pleasure doing business with you.

I am not against money and I am not against ministries that ask for money.

Ho boy.... LET'S REVIEW, shall we?......

TV preachers for the most part are entertainment and there to raise money. -- Vlad Drkulec

...Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen. Their messages tend to be uplifting and I don't sense that they are all about the money. -- Vlad Drkulec

I do not recognize (Jack van Impe's) or his wife's authority to speak on spiritual matters. I have pointed out what I believe is his motivation. -- Vlad Drkulec

(MONEY! - p.b.)

Read the bible and ask God to illuminate your understanding and reveal himself to you. No need to send money to anyone. -- Vlad Drkulec

I am not asking anyone to send me money -- Vlad Drkulec

Sounds like you very definitely have a problem with Christians asking for money.

Osteen was talking about money flowing to the believer and not to his ministry.

Olsteen IS A BELIEVER. Therefore he is justifying money flowing to him and is in fact asking for money.

I have not taken Jack Van Impe seriously since I saw him make some prophetic predictions in 1999 or so relating to the Y2K crisis. They were silly patent nonsense and of course did not materialize. More recently he has made some assertions in his books and his television program that are also patent nonsense.

The basis of my decision not to watch Van Impe is that he made false prophecies in 1999 and has made some questionable prophecies about the end times among other things. He has also made incorrect statements which could lead to a false sense of security. In my view he is a false prophet to be avoided.

Since you are an unbeliever why does it offend you that I don't believe in a televangelist who has given clearly incorrect information to his readers and viewers?

Wow.... so much incorrect, false, patent nonsense! And yet, not a word of evidence!

Please, enlighten us, oh holy one! DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING AT ALL?

Since you are ultimately responsible for your own fate it is silly to entrust it to some other authority whether it be Jack Van Impe or anyone else.

Ok, there's a quote for the ages. How about entrusting it to Johnny Cash.... or Taylor Swift.... or Leonard Cohen??? Gotcha!

And by the way, all those songwriters.... PUBLISHED THEIR SONGS FOR MONEY.



DEAR CHESSTALK READER:

If you have persisted to read this far, I want to make one last point here before I say over and out on this thread.

I do not consider it bad for anyone to believe on the teachings of the New Testament of the Bible..... PROVIDED..... one does not feel the compulsion, the absolute need, to bring others into the faith, and one does not pass judgment on others of the faith or outside the faith.

Use your faith for your own self-improvement, and (unlike Vlad Drkulec) to be an example to others. Never be a "holier than thou".

Jesus made it clear that true disciples would be very very few and very very far between.

I would also point out that there is a history to the writing / compiling of the Bible. Learn about that, it's very important! You will discover the flaws of the Bible, and this will propel you to learn more in an attempt to find the truth.

As perhaps the biggest example of a flaw in the Bible, here again are the verses Vlad Drkulec just quoted:

Matthew Chapter 7
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These verses prove above all that the Bible cannot be considered infallible. That is because these verses can be used by any church or Christian to undermine any other church or Christian. Verse 21 is especially damning. What exactly is "the will of my Father"??? It can be anything and everything under the sun. Just cherry pick some other Bible verses, call that "the will of my Father", and destroy some other church as illegitimate.

In fact, Vlad Drkulec used these verses for just that purpose, to undermine Jack van Impe. If you want to become a disciple of Vlad Drkulec, be my guest, but be forewarned that your logic will always be faulty.

And by the way, I don't give any specific credence to Jack van Impe. I brought him up as just one example of televangelists who preach that in the end times, according to the Bible, an alliance of nations including Russia, China and Persia (Iran) will attack Israel in the final battle of Armageddon. And in that context, news that Russia is shipping uranium to Iran is seen as GOOD news by these same televangelists (and perhaps by your local pastor as well) because it is a sign that the end times are approaching. That isn't wishing harm on Israel as Drkulec wants to argue, because the Bible says that Israel MUST AND WILL be attacked in the end time.

Above all, be moral and love others as yourself. That is the essence of "the truth".

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

Oh, goody! What we have here, folks, is a prime example of what is wrong with Christianity: one "man of God" knocking down another, and using Bible scripture to do it! Just more proof that the Bible is not what you have been told it is. The above verses can be used to destroy ANY pastor, ANY church, ANY ministry. Just lump it in with all those that God will reject on Judgment Day!

I have not taken Jack Van Impe seriously since I saw him make some prophetic predictions in 1999 or so relating to the Y2K crisis. They were silly patent nonsense and of course did not materialize. More recently he has made some assertions in his books and his television program that are also patent nonsense.

Starting to see the machinations of insanity here, Vlad.

The only insanity here is yours. You are projecting again. Since you are an unbeliever why does it offend you that I don't believe in a televangelist who has given clearly incorrect information to his readers and viewers?

You are setting yourself up as one who can and does decide who on Earth is evil and who is not.

I do not believe he is evil but I do believe he is misguided. Since you are ultimately responsible for your own fate it is silly to entrust it to some other authority whether it be Jack Van Impe or anyone else.

I'm smart enough to know there is no debating an insane person,

Thanks for reminding me that I should be stuffing you back in my ignore list.

The basis of your claim against Van Impe and other televangelists is that they ask for money.

The basis of my decision not to watch Van Impe is that he made false prophecies in 1999 and has made some questionable prophecies about the end times among other things. He has also made incorrect statements which could lead to a false sense of security. In my view he is a false prophet to be avoided.

In Van Impe's case, he runs a non-profit ministry. Therefore it would seem that whatever money he asks for is to support the ministry.
You earlier wrote this:
"Two preachers that I occasionally watch (on the order of once every month or two) are Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen. Their messages tend to be uplifting and I don't sense that they are all about the money."

Olseen is most definitely ALL about the money. Here is a direct quote as to what Olsteen feels he preaches about:

"I've said it 1,000 times, it's being healthy, it's having great children, it's having peace of mind. Money is part of it; and yes, I believe God wants us to excel ... to be blessed so we can be a bigger blessing to others."

(from an interview with The Christian Post on April 21, 2013)

I am not against money and I am not against ministries that ask for money. Osteen was talking about money flowing to the believer and not to his ministry.

I've pretty much nailed your sorry ass to the wall here,

As always you are a legend in your own mind and nowhere else.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

Matthew Chapter 7
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

. . .

I am not asking anyone to send me money nor making claims that are not supported by the bible.

Oh, goody! What we have here, folks, is a prime example of what is wrong with Christianity: one "man of God" knocking down another, and using Bible scripture to do it! Just more proof that the Bible is not what you have been told it is. The above verses can be used to destroy ANY pastor, ANY church, ANY ministry. Just lump it in with all those that God will reject on Judgment Day!


Starting to see the machinations of insanity here, Vlad. You are setting yourself up as one who can and does decide who on Earth is evil and who is not. I knew you were narcissistic, but I didn't fully realize until now that you have a God complex.

I'm smart enough to know there is no debating an insane person, but I'll indulge you a little more.

The basis of your claim against Van Impe and other televangelists is that they ask for money. In Van Impe's case, he runs a non-profit ministry. Therefore it would seem that whatever money he asks for is to support the ministry. Isn't this the same as what all churches do: pass around a plate for donations, to support the ministry? Aren't all pastors of all churches guilty of "asking for money"? They may not be standing at the pulpit and saying "Please give", but the plate is being passed around.

Are you condemning all churches that "ask for money"? Where is the accounting for the money that they take in this way? Who knows what that money is going towards.

So what you seem to be saying is that any ministry that takes in money is evil in God's eye, and will be rejected by God according to the verses you quoted.

You earlier wrote this:
"Two preachers that I occasionally watch (on the order of once every month or two) are Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen. Their messages tend to be uplifting and I don't sense that they are all about the money."

Olseen is most definitely ALL about the money. Here is a direct quote as to what Olsteen feels he preaches about:

"I've said it 1,000 times, it's being healthy, it's having great children, it's having peace of mind. Money is part of it; and yes, I believe God wants us to excel ... to be blessed so we can be a bigger blessing to others."

(from an interview with The Christian Post on April 21, 2013)

OUCH! If that isn't "asking for money" I don't know what is. Maybe you can differentiate it for us?

I've pretty much nailed your sorry ass to the wall here, but I know you'll come back with something because you are, I believe, insane. Thus your constant use of song lyrics when you can't present a reasonable argument (Johnny Cash is rolling in his grave).

I'd sure like to know what works YOU have done in God's name, or more specifically, what makes YOU so privileged as to be able to tell the rest of us who is evil and who is not, and why you yourself are not in fact a most particularly vile and evil person.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Trump - The NEW, New Thread

You do not recognize the authority to speak on spiritual matters of Jack Van Impe,

Correct.

a man known as the "Walking Bible" because of his extensive memorization of Bible verses, a man who worked with the Billy Graham crusades, a man running a non-profit organization (Jack Van Impe Presents) to spread the Word of God which you supposedly "believe" in....

Matthew Chapter 7
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

and you call me a "minion of Satan"!!!!

If the shoe fits.

Perhaps you are the false prophet.

I am not asking anyone to send me money nor making claims that are not supported by the bible.