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Example: A player touches a piece and makes a move with another one. The arbiter shall force the player to play the touched piece."
What if the other player decides it was an accident and let his opponent play the other piece? See my previous post with the Navara-Moiseenko game from the 2011 World Cup.
With the queen in his hand Bator probably realized that it was his fault that Nikolay promoted to an upside-down rook and should tell the arbiter he's OK with the queen promotion, replace the rook with the queen and continue the game.
For those who know such things, under FIDE rules / the Arbiters Handbook, are arbiters supposed to intervene immediately when they see a promotion to an inverted rook, or should they wait until the opponent makes a claim?
Regarding "immediately" - there is no such word in this sentence: "The Arbiter has to intervene and put the Rook in its correct position on the square and he may penalize the player according to the Article 12.9." Though, it sounds that there is no need to wait for opponents reply.
You can compare with this specific one (the text is not a rule just explanation what the arbiter should do): "If an arbiter observes a violation of Article 4 he must always intervene immediately. He should not wait for a claim to be submitted by a player." Article 4 - mostly about touch move, also this "d. promotes a pawn, the choice of the piece is finalised, when the piece has touched the square of promotion."
Though the main rule is "12.1 The arbiter shall see that the Laws of Chess are strictly observed," with the explanation: "The Arbiter must be present and control the games. In case the arbiter observes an infringement, he may interfere. He must not wait for a claim from the opponent. Example: A player touches a piece and makes a move with another one. The arbiter shall force the player to play the touched piece."
Now - Is it holding/hiding/chewing a captured piece an infringement? Rules do not say anything what should be done with captured pieces, they are just removed from the board. There are no Geneva Conventions for them yet.
For those who know such things, under FIDE rules / the Arbiters Handbook, are arbiters supposed to intervene immediately when they see a promotion to an inverted rook, or should they wait until the opponent makes a claim?
Just a thought. Can they play a rematch? Something this important shouldnt be decided like this.
In general, I don't think chess politicians should be deciding this. We have arbiters for a reason. We have tournament appeals committees for a reason. We have a National Appeals Committee for a reason. We have rules for a reason. I already learned a few things about chess rules from this situation.
Bator stood silent as his opponent is forced to under-promote. Perhaps in the heat of the moment Bator was unaware that he denied his opponent his queen but one thing we know 100 Percent for sure is that he did and if he see's the video he should be offering his resignation. It should go without saying that integrity is worth more then a victory, even an important one and the game of chess is bigger then that.
The position at first glance appears to be winning for Nikolay where he effectively ends up in a two pawns up queens on the board ending if allowing the game to take it's normal course.
Hi Sid,
I posted too hastily and am not sure what the correct action is actually. I just read the stackexchange post and by letter of the law, it seems the onus is on Nikolay to stop the clocks and find a queen even if theres no queen available (6.12b) since an upside down rook cannot be a queen by touch promotion square rule as Egis and others mentioned.
So the appeal would probably deal with whether Bator brought the game into disrepute with his actions like Sid thinks and he has a case based on Bator's non-reaction to the arbiter ruling. (nb. the rule doesnt say that the game must intentionally be brought into disrepute)
And as to deliberately hiding your captured pieces from the opponent, there's always Rule 12.1:
The players shall take no action that will bring the game of chess into disrepute.
Of course in spirit of the game they should have let Nikolay promote a queen considering there was none readily available but the arbiter didnt know that. Just a bad situation all around and I feel badly for Nikolay and Bator and especially the poor arbiter who probably feels awful.
I didnt really look at the position but it also seems super unfair to Bator to just award Nikolay the win.
Theres really no good solution. Good luck appeals commitee :-)
You do need to know the rules. Placing a rook upside down was a mistake. It seems to me that the first line of appeal should have been to the tournament appeals committee. I would certainly want to do some research before rendering an opinion and anyone associated with the CFC should ixnay on the editorializing. It can come back to bite. I am sure that the national appeals committee will consider the rules of chess and come to the correct decision.
Bator captured the queen and it's his possession. Nikolay promoted a pawn and it's his headache to get a queen or other piece. The rule is clearly in favor to a promoting person - stop the clock and ask the arbiter to bring the required piece. The arbiter shall deal with the player withholding the piece or look for other set.
While it is not in the rules, the case of upside down rook is in the Arbiter's Manual. A.Peredun cited the text. One more time:
""When a player places an inverted (upside‐down) Rook in the promotion square and continues the game, the piece is considered as a Rook, even if he names it as a “Queen” or any other piece. To put an inverted Rook on the promotion square is not considered as an illegal move. The Arbiter has to intervene and put the Rook in its correct position on the square and he may penalize the player according to the Article 12.9." http://arbiters.fide.com/images/stor...anual-2016.pdf
The rule does not make sense to even consider all of this in the heat of a time scramble. Secondly based on article 12.1 it is clear that the game could suffer reputational damage if a player is rewarded for concealing his opponents queen... knowing that almost no one would have the presence of mind to stop the clock in the middle of a time scramble in order to avoid declaring a piece a queen. Especially after playing a lifetime of casual speed games where one simply declares what the promoting piece is or turn's the rook upside down. A player refusing to recognize that his action of concealing the Queen caused his opponent's demise else he would have surely lost also does not help the reputation of the game. This type of activity should never be rewarded.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Monday, 3rd July, 2017, 11:04 PM.
Maybe we need to re-design the Rook in standard sets so that it will not stand up if inverted. :-) Some of those plastic sets have Bishops with such flat tops that they can be inverted and remain standing. :-)
Maybe we need to re-design the Rook in standard sets so that it will not stand up if inverted. :-) Some of those plastic sets have Bishops with such flat tops that they can be inverted and remain standing. :-)
Bator captured the queen and it's his possession. Nikolay promoted a pawn and it's his headache to get a queen or other piece. The rule is clearly in favor to a promoting person - stop the clock and ask the arbiter to bring the required piece. The arbiter shall deal with the player withholding the piece or look for other set.
While it is not in the rules, the case of upside down rook is in the Arbiter's Manual. A.Peredun cited the text. One more time:
""When a player places an inverted (upside‐down) Rook in the promotion square and continues the game, the piece is considered as a Rook, even if he names it as a “Queen” or any other piece. To put an inverted Rook on the promotion square is not considered as an illegal move. The Arbiter has to intervene and put the Rook in its correct position on the square and he may penalize the player according to the Article 12.9." http://arbiters.fide.com/images/stor...anual-2016.pdf
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