Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

[Caesar Posylek]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

The latest message from GM.Anton Kovalyov is as following:
Anton Kovalyov
5 mins ·
I am closing my facebook account. I don't want this to be more distracting than it should. Thank you all for the support.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

the rule on attire

Please cite it.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

I'm a bit surprised Roger, assuming you do not believe in the FIDE rule that players must have proper attire. With NN you were quick to point out it was his duty to know and follow the rules by stopping the clock to promote, but here you do not seem to agree with the rule on attire, so your argument of the player's duty to follow rules has changed? Or is it because this rule on proper attire doesn't really exist and its a FIDE on-the-fly rule?

Mavros

I'm pointing out the logical fallacy involved in invoking Fischer into this conversation.

And has been pointed out previously, Bermuda shorts appear to be allowed attire.

[Mavros Whissell]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

1) Both Fischer and Kasparov had short hair.

2) Therefore all chess players should have short hair.

As a logical argument, it is less than compelling.

I'm a bit surprised Roger, assuming you do not believe in the FIDE rule that players must have proper attire. With NN you were quick to point out it was his duty to know and follow the rules by stopping the clock to promote, but here you do not seem to agree with the rule on attire, so your argument of the player's duty to follow rules has changed? Or is it because this rule on proper attire doesn't really exist and its a FIDE on-the-fly rule?

Mavros

[David Ottosen]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

Having followed further, to be honest, I am starting to come around a bit to FIDE's side.

FIDE portion of the argument:
1) Anton was not forfeited - he was asked to change, and when he said he was unable to, by all accounts (including both Anton's and the Chief Arbiters) there were no plans to forfeit or punish him in any way that day.
2) However unclearly the wording is written, I don't think any reasonable person would consider his attire of the standard you'd want to see at this level; that he had worn it without admonishment previously makes his clothing choice understandable but still wrong.


Azmai portion:
1) Azmaiparashvilli has ZERO reason to approach Kovalyov at this point; the issue has been discussed and resolved properly with the arbiter. There was no cause to escalate the problem, and nothing good was going to come of it.
2) When Azmaiparashvili told him he should change, the proper response should be "Already discussed with Arbiter, not an issue for future rounds but no time right now". Anton does talk (properly) about the lack of respect Azmaiparashvili showed him, but I do think there is something of a case to ask Anton to show a modicum of respect to the organizer of the event and the event itself.

In the end, everyone comes off looking badly, other than the chief arbiter, who by all accounts seems to have handled the situation perfectly.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

If you want to be a pro, dress like a pro. Fischer understood that. Kasparov, too. Both are among the greatest GMs ever. And the FIDE didn't tell them how to dress.

.

1) Both Fischer and Kasparov had short hair.

2) Therefore all chess players should have short hair.

As a logical argument, it is less than compelling.

[Caesar Posylek]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

This article is taken from Greg Shahade's blog:
"Azmaiparashvili is a Cheating Scumbag.
SEPTEMBER 9, 2017 / CURTAINS20
I’m writing this blog out of rage for the injustice that was just suffered by Grandmaster Anton Kovalyov.
Anton just forfeited from the FIDE World Cup after an incident involving his clothing choices, despite having worn the same clothing for the first two rounds without issue. Below is a brief snippet of his post game statement:
“The issue were not the shorts but how I was treated. I came to the game and was approached by the arbiter asking me to change (first time). I told him that I don’t have pants with me, and then I noticed that I was playing black instead of white, which came as a surprise for me and asked him to check that. He and the other arbiters checked and confirmed to me that I’m playing with black, we talked a little and everything was fine. Then came Zurab, he was very agressive, yelling at me and using the racial slur “gypsy” to insult me, apart from mentioning several times that I will be punished by FIDE. I told him that I had asked before at the previous world cup if what I was wearing was OK and I was told by somebody from the organization that yes. Zurab, in a prepotent way, said he doesn’t care, he’s the organizer now. At this point I was really angry but tried not to do anything stupid, and asked him why he was so rude to me, and he said because I’m a gypsy.”
This is what happens when you allow well known cheaters and unethical people to have such major involvement in your chess events. They end up using racial slurs to intimidate and harass the players.
If you go to the following link, which is titled “cheating in chess”, you can read about how Azmaiparashvili created a tournament out of thin air in order to reach the chess elite. He gained 50 ELO points in a fabricated tournament with 3 other players. The tournament was a sextuple round robin, in which everyone faced everyone else 6 times. Azmaiparashvili finished with 16/18, and another player rated 2400, Rolando Kutirov, finished with 11.5/18, enough to get his GM title. Meanwhile the two 2500+ rated GM’s, Kurajica and Rashkovsky, finished with 4.5 and 4 points out of 18.
Here’s a link to the crosstable and the fabricated games.
Here is a quote from Veselin Topalov, for why he withdrew from the Grand Prix cycle in 2017.
“The last degradation of the FIDE happened during the Opening Ceremony of the World Blitz and Rapid Championship 2017 in Qatar. The person appointed by FIDE to open the Championship was no other than Zurab Azmaiparashvili, ECU President with a large record of unethical and even criminal acts during his career. These unethical acts he committed both as a player and as a FIDE official include buying an entire tournament in Strumica 95, and the case of sexual harassment in Mexico in 2007.”
So to sum it all up, we have a guy who is well known by everyone to be a massive cheater, was thrown out of a hotel in 2007 for sexual harassment, and has committed many other unethical acts during his career in chess, and yet somehow he is named as an official for the FIDE World Cup?
There is nothing less surprising than hearing that he called Kovalyov a gypsy on multiple occasions, because this is how Azmaiparashvili behaves. He says and does whatever he wants without any repercussion. He made up a tournament to reach the world elite and later went on to become FIDE Vice President.
What should happen now? This is a difficult question, but one in which I believe in my answer.
The top players in the world should band together and refuse to play until Azmaiparashvili is removed from his role as organizer and is forced to leave the premises. I admit it’s very unlikely that this will occur, as the elite chess community has a rich history of turning a blind eye to the corruption and greed that is so evident at the top of the FIDE food chain. It’s understandable, they love chess and FIDE does provide them generous sums of money to play at the highest level. Is it really worth it to risk your reputation and career for something like this? While I think that the answer is yes, I’m not going to hold it against everyone for staying quiet and continuing to play chess under the auspices of known cheaters and bullies.
I also hope that organizers around the world show Kovalyov some love and give him invites to a few major tournaments. When one of the top players in the world is treated in such an unfair manner by a top FIDE official, the chess community should band together to make sure that this player knows that we don’t think that what happened was okay. Good for Anton for not debasing himself and playing in a tournament where he was treated in such a manner. He could have won a lot of money, but his dignity was worth more to him.
Meanwhile Azmaiparashvili should be asked to resign from any official role he has in the chess world. This guy has been a cheater for decades now, it’s getting boring already. Just go away and keep getting crushed by me online."

[Gordon Ritchie]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

Anyone expecting a genuine apology from Zurab.... Again, the issue is Zurab's conduct in castigating, threatening and insulting one of the world's top players just minutes before his game.

[Dan Scoones]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

Fischer had a nickname as the Corduroy Killer, for his refusal to wear anything but corduroy pants and striped sport shirts. Fischer was known to dress atrociously until Benko convinced him otherwise.

True, but that is not the whole story. It must be remembered that Fischer was raised by a single mother. He did not have much spare cash, and what he did have went on chess literature. But after getting an advance from Simon & Schuster for his first chess book, he was finally able to afford some decent clothes. Benko's role was connecting Fischer with a reliable tailor. The results may be seen on the cover of the February 1960 issue of Chess Review.

[Caesar Posylek]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

Zurab Azmaiparashvili’s Statement:
"From 2012, when I became the Deputy Minister of Sport and Youth Affairs of Georgia, till nowadays, I have brought around 20 million USD for chess: We have organized top events like Grand Prix, Women Grand Prix (twice), Women and Individual European championships, European Youth and World Cadets Championship, FIDE World Cup and next year we are going to organize the Olympiad…
When a country and private sponsors invest such a big amount in chess, it is expected that it will be respected from all chess community and especially from the professional chess players who are the beneficiaries of the prize fund. Especially at the FIDE World Cup, for which we did anything possible (even took the loan from the Bank) to secure the chess players’ prize fund 4 months in advance.
When we are asking for sponsorship and big prize funds then the professional chess players and their unions should also bear the responsibility to protect these investments.
It is not appropriate for a chess player to declare a day before that he intentionally came with only one shorts and that he is ready to leave, because he has other more important obligations. Indeed, he left the tournament as he stated that he wished to do so only one day before! (http://chess-news.ru/node/2368 1)
This is a top level tournament with 1,6 million prize fund and it is part of the WC cycle.
It is not a private or local tournament! It is not a youth event!
Such attitude is harming the organization through media and is preventing any future sponsor to invest in chess. This is a big damage to chess and its funding.
I have to dispel the confusion and say that nobody had told the player that he should be forfeited or that he could not play the game. Mr. Kovalyov was instructed by the Сhief Arbiter as well as by the organizers, that according to the regulations he should have been dressed appropriately. But he was being ignorant. If he had just simply asked for our help, we would have sent a car to bring him some more clothes at our expense or even drive Mr. Kovalyov after the game to choose it by himself. What would be the problem in showing some respect to the organizers?
If I said some words, during a minute of an emotional conversation which followed, that insulted Mr. Kovalyov, I am ready to apologize and I would do it here as well as, in front of him if he were here in his position, playing his games, as he was supposed to do. I have always been ready in my life to correct any mistake and I have no problem to do it in this case as well.
But the truth is that nobody told that he should be forfeited, nobody told him that he could not play and nobody told him to leave the tournament. This was only his intention which he revealed one day earlier.
And so, he left an empty board, a chess player without an opponent, damaging again the FIDE World Cup and its sponsors.
In social media, this fact has caused, in my opinion, incomprehensible reactions. Even a conspiracy theory was created – that all this was the reason Mr. Kovalyov left the tournament. It is absurd and even commenting on this subject is unnecessary. We respect each and every participant and naturally, we expect and demand from them the same respect and attitude towards the organizers and their colleagues. In spite of the fact, that Mr. Kovalyov’s attitude towards such a prestigious tournament was frivolous to begin with (changing the flight dates in a force majeure situation), nobody had even reprimanded him.
I am waiting for Mr. Kovalyov to also apologize for this disrespect towards the organizers and towards his colleagues for withdrawing from the tournament and affecting its results.
So, I want to ask any interested party, in your opinion is it worth for sponsors to put such amounts of money for prize funds, promoting their image, when chess players have such behaviors and attitude?
And I also want to say that if Mr. Kovalyov denied receiving his share of the prize fund this makes no difference for us. We have already paid 1.776 million to FIDE and we need to present to our sponsors what is the service that they paid for.
And finally, I would like to say – I’ll do my best to improve the image of our sport and the way chess top events look through mass media, including TV.
If we wish the sponsors to fund our tournaments and the media to promote them, we are all responsible to have an appropriate dress code for at least the official Chess World Championship Cycle competitions."

[Brent Golem]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

Fischer started to dress up as soon as he became a GM and professional player. Yes, maybe Benko had to explain it to him. But he got it right away.

I seriously don't disagree with your opinion about chess vs. poker vs. golf. A GM can dress however he wants... but seriously... chess players have been behaving like poker players for years, coming to the venue dressed like garbage and then they wonder why they get garbage money.

Poker players can dress like they want because people can relate to them on any given day. They want to see that. The drama when the cards are turned up. I see a poker player and I know I can make the moves he's dashing out. A chess GM? Sorry, but it's just not the same.

Sure, professionals should dress like professionals to differentiate themselves from amateurs, but it's all on FIDE to organize that. Why they haven't organized a professional chess tour with a clear dress code is beyond me. But people aren't watching because they have no good broadcasting and coverage, not because of the perceived professionalism of the participants. There's not a widespread awareness of professional chess and the major tournaments. I think I can name like 4, and I have no clue if they are "majors" or not. Chess.com has partnered with titled players to have the best streams, and St Louis Chess Club has the most professional broadcast coverage. FIDE has Agon which does nothing of the sort. Wasted opportunity to reach a larger audience, FIDE should really acquire Chess24 or similar site to get their message out.

[Mathieu Cloutier]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

I think you are misremembering chess history here Mathieu. Fischer had a nickname as the Corduroy Killer, for his refusal to wear anything but corduroy pants and striped sport shirts. Fischer was known to dress atrociously until Benko convinced him otherwise.

Personally, I think chess needs to be more like poker and less like golf, and try to remove itself from its elitist pedestal. The drama needs to come from the players and the board, not the organizers nor FIDE. The chess scene needs relatable personalities, and is gaining popularity due to an online streaming presence, where none of the commentators are dressed as sharp as the chess they play.

Fischer started to dress up as soon as he became a GM and professional player. Yes, maybe Benko had to explain it to him. But he got it right away.

I seriously don't disagree with your opinion about chess vs. poker vs. golf. A GM can dress however he wants... but seriously... chess players have been behaving like poker players for years, coming to the venue dressed like garbage and then they wonder why they get garbage money.

Poker players can dress like they want because people can relate to them on any given day. They want to see that. The drama when the cards are turned up. I see a poker player and I know I can make the moves he's dashing out. A chess GM? Sorry, but it's just not the same.

[Brent Golem]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

If you want to be a pro, dress like a pro. Fischer understood that. Kasparov, too. Both are among the greatest GMs ever. And the FIDE didn't tell them how to dress.

If you don't feel like playing chess in front of the cameras, don't bother showing up. Plenty of guys are willing and able to take your spot.

I think you are misremembering chess history here Mathieu. Fischer had a nickname as the Corduroy Killer, for his refusal to wear anything but corduroy pants and striped sport shirts. Fischer was known to dress atrociously until Benko convinced him otherwise.

Personally, I think chess needs to be more like poker and less like golf, and try to remove itself from its elitist pedestal. The drama needs to come from the players and the board, not the organizers nor FIDE. The chess scene needs relatable personalities, and is gaining popularity due to an online streaming presence, where none of the commentators are dressed as sharp as the chess they play.

[Mathieu Cloutier]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

This brings up some questions. Can the world of pro chess handle two "official" organizations? There isn't much money to go around as it is, and not much money pouring in from sponsors. A new organization would have to convince potential sponsors that something big is happening, and that a break from FIDE will open the floodgates of world interest.

The world of chess can handle many organizations. But i don't know if it can handle many Paul Bonhams... :p

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Kovaliov playng in the World's Cup in Giorgia

The association of chess professionals has put out a protest letter that leaves open the possibility of Chess Federations getting involved. One approach is to boycott FIDE and start an entirely new organization. I know exactly where there would be millions of dollars of funding available for such an undertaking. It is criminal that a young man who spent a lifetime perfecting his craft is forced to forfeit the game of his lifetime even though he had not broken any regulations at all! It was impossible for him to comply with the demand of the organizer and still make it back to play his game in time.
FIDE is an organization run by thugs and the time has come to end the abuse.
http://www.chessprofessionals.org/content/acp-protests

This brings up some questions. Can the world of pro chess handle two "official" organizations? There isn't much money to go around as it is, and not much money pouring in from sponsors. A new organization would have to convince potential sponsors that something big is happening, and that a break from FIDE will open the floodgates of world interest.

I have some ideas on how this can happen. A new organization would require some new thoughts about chess. Turn plain vanilla "chess" into a newly branded product (as one possibility, "ChessEx", where "Ex" means "Extended"). Include a few new variants where the game becomes more like poker, that is, the game becomes a mixture of luck and skill so that lesser skilled can occassionally win. This allows a larger % of chess players to actually earn a living from chess, and the variants I have in mind that I have invented for this purpose would not have as much variance as poker...

...wow, two words that sound exactly the same but have different spellings and meanings: "variants" and "variance" and both are relevant here!!!...

This kind of talk is heresy to elite chessplayers, and that is why top level chess languishes as Mathieu Cloutier describes. But applying dress code isn't going to solve the problems. Poker has a proven business model, it attracts much much more world interest than chess. Use that business model to expand chess!

The pure form of chess would still remain, and would be considered the true test of skill, but the other versions would be the actual moneymakers because they would be the ones that people even outside of the world of chess would follow -- on cable TV, for example.

Chess cannot thrive beyond its current level without bringing outsiders into the fold. If there are seriously people considering a new chess organization and they are open to ideas, I'd be happy to discuss with them the few variants that I believe would bring in outsiders, and I can explain exactly why. In fact, one of the variants would even bring in poker players / followers, and that is huge in itself. For this variant, I have plans for getting it into casinos across North America in what will become a championship tour.

These variants aren't involving 10 x 10 boards nor new fairy pieces. That kind of change isn't what is needed. The kind of change I'm talking about is more fundamental, more intrinsic to the goal of getting new people interested... I learned this from the manner in which I first got interested in poker. I got totally hooked despite not knowing the fundamentals of poker, and I learned just what it was that got me and many others hooked, and that is what I'm going to bring to chess.

I don't expect to hear from anyone about this, which is ok because I'm already on the path (slow as it may be, due partially to the bad reputation of chess) to making this happen.

In another thread, Vlad Drkulec said some very pertinent to this line of thinking. He said that Kovalyov's achievements of the past week were establishing a narrative that anything can happen in chess, and that was and is building excitement and interest. Yes.... that is the idea. You build excitement and interest by letting it be known that anything can happen. Even more so than in the current world of elite standard chess.