Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

[Benoit St-Pierre]

Who's Aristotelian Anymore Anyway?

Explaining a modus tollens in a chess forum is pedantic. Among other bad things. Deal with it.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Zeljko,

When you say crap like that, you tell the world how little you understand the true meaning of the word "logic".

And when you called me "professor", and used terms like "pedantic" (yes, that was so very mature of you), then you started up the personal attack. Neither of those emotionally-charged words were necessary in relaying your nonsense, unless you were inviting a reply with as much nonsense as yours...

Oh, and if you had been reading the posts, you would know that spectators did in fact show up, because at least one spectator posted a message to that end. However once again your post clearly shows how little you know of what you are speaking, therefore once again I have to waste my time to point out obvious details to you.

Jordan

earth to Jordan, stop wasting your time posting nonsense and stop being all professor like marking up my 'term paper' with underlining & bolding

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

...the tournament was indeed well organized and I don't see any reason for complaint from Jean or anyone else.

It seems to me that I have been clear enough about my reasons, you may disagree with them (for example some players hate spectators, for them they are just disturbances) but to not "see" them may be explained only by a reluctance to open one's eyes and ears if not mind.

By the way I am sure that many people would be interested in knowing your criterias for calling a canadian championship "well organised" or "top notch". Seeing how minimal expectations from many players are (room, sets and clocks...), is a sure way to get "top notch" organizers and improved conditions in the future...

[Jordan S. Berson]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Thanks for the vitriolic, personal attack. It shows the real level of your thought process despite your trying to give us all a lecture in logic. Take care. Perhaps you and Jean should sit in a corner &... but no I won't stoop to your level if that is what you were trying to do.

Your post has no logic and you have no maturity and empty seats and demo boards set out for spectators that didn't come would make about as much sense as you do.

Zeljko,

When you say crap like that, you tell the world how little you understand the true meaning of the word "logic".

And when you called me "professor", and used terms like "pedantic" (yes, that was so very mature of you), then you started up the personal attack. Neither of those emotionally-charged words were necessary in relaying your nonsense, unless you were inviting a reply with as much nonsense as yours...

Oh, and if you had been reading the posts, you would know that spectators did in fact show up, because at least one spectator posted a message to that end. However once again your post clearly shows how little you know of what you are speaking, therefore once again I have to waste my time to point out obvious details to you.

Jordan

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Oh my, Zelko, are you serious??? So you're just like the other overly-emotional posters who picks a side and defends it with whatever garbage they can muster, even though your defence is unwarranted. I thought you were more intelligent than that, but apparently you not only missed the point of my post, you miss the point of the entire discussion. But hey, at least you picked a side and you're playing the game!!!

I'm not going to spend precious minutes of my life re-explaining everything to you, because my post did not address you. I will simply add you to a list of now two people who are apparently more emotional than intelligent, therefore do not get the benefit of a response from me.

Congrats Zelko... go sit quietly in the corner with Sheldon until you two can learn to play nice, and then you can join the rest of us.

Thanks for the vitriolic, personal attack. It shows the real level of your thought process despite your trying to give us all a lecture in logic. Take care. Perhaps you and Jean should sit in a corner &... but no I won't stoop to your level if that is what you were trying to do.

Your post has no logic and you have no maturity and empty seats and demo boards set out for spectators that didn't come would make about as much sense as you do.

[Ron Livshits]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Regarding my decision to withdraw,

I really could care less about rating points, the tournament was indeed well organized and I don't see any reason for complaint from Jean or anyone else. I play chess to enjoy myself and when I play I usually play to win. I withdrew because there was no chance to win ( or even finish near the top). I was fairly tired, having to both work and play at the same time (not to mention playing 11 rounds at the continental in Brazil 1 week before the closed). I fought very hard in all my games, unfortunately things did not go my way and I was very disappointed to score 1/3 against Jiang, Samsonkin, and Kaminski (with whom I stubbornly refused a draw and tried to win ending in a loss). I was winning in all 3 games but could not finish them off. Possibly if I would not have had to work and drive from Toronto to Guelph every day the games would have turned out differently. The only game in which I was really outclassed was my loss against Mark. So I decided to withdraw to be able to recover a little bit before returning to work. Possibly a debatable decision but as Jean correctly writes I am a chess amateur and I paid the $250 entry fee like everyone else.

On another note, congratulations to Jean for winning the tournament. Also I was truly amazed by Mark's High caliber of play (when he was in form he no one in Guelph really came close to the caliber of his play as far as I'm concerned), as he is clearly showing in Montreal his play is very strong and I think that he can be a 2700+ player if he received the proper financial support. I hope someone can do something.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

I wasn't planning on posting in this thread until someone defended Ron's unprofessional behavior.

But what do you expect ? Ron was an amateur player playing in an unprofessionnally organized event at his own expenses. In these conditions should he continue to spend his time and money in a desperate cause if he had a choice?

On the other hand, if he really felt that he was playing in a "top notch" event as he stated, maybe he should have stuck to it to the bitter end, if only to recognize the organizer's "top notch" effort. :)

The fact of the matter is: organizers can expect professionnal behaviour if they show the way first by doing their job in a professionnal manner and treating players accordingly. Otherwise ...

[Jordan S. Berson]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Yes, he may not of gotten first, but when you commit to the national championship, you stay in it. Do you think in the Olympics (or competitions), athletes decide to stop competing once they see that 1st place is out of sight?

Eric,

That's a very fair statement. I remember once years ago on the old Chess Talk site there was a long discussion about imposing penalties or sanctions against players who withdraw from round robins and such. Being a national championship, maybe there should be certain restrictions imposed. If it was still the old 16-player RR format, then a withdrawal would look very bad, and would surely tarnish a player's reputation.

When I said that Precy's allegations were baseless, I was more referring to the part about him saying that Livshits withdrew to preserve his rating for GM qualification purposes, which seems more humourous than anything. Surely a person with a 2332 ELO who has played one GM norm event in over 8 years is not gunning for the title any time soon...

Jordan

[Victor Plotkin]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Yes, he may not of gotten first, but when you commit to the national championship, you stay in it. Do you think in the Olympics (or competitions), athletes decide to stop competing once they see that 1st place is out of sight?

And what about chessplayer who withdrew twice from his last two (2006 and 2007) Canadian Championships and still got an invitation to National team (wild card) from CFC (may be not from CFC, but it doesn't matter)? I don't think sponsors should like it.

[John Brown]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Hi Bob;
I played in the CNIB Charity chess tournament in Brantford otherwise I may have been one of those old spectators who would have needed a chair. As I was planning to go to Guelph for the final day.

I might also note that I was the First to vote for Jean Herbert that he would win the Closed. On that poll thing that was on Chess Talk. Who will win the Canadian Closed ?

[Kovalyov Anton]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Thanks.

Best regards, Anton.

[Eric Hansen]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Do you have any link of this event?

The 2010 Copper State International will be held from June 4th-10th in Mesa, Arizona. Expect the best to get better next year… For more information, feel free to contact ACE Chess President, Daniel Rensch at Info@AmericanChess.net.

The tournament link is gone from last year, but I'm sure they will have it back up as the tournament gets closer.

[Kovalyov Anton]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Do you have any link of this event?

[Eric Hansen]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Yes, he may not of gotten first, but when you commit to the national championship, you stay in it. Do you think in the Olympics (or competitions), athletes decide to stop competing once they see that 1st place is out of sight?

[Eric Hansen]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

HAHA Nice one Christopher :)

Precy's allegation is clearly baseless.

With two rounds to go, Ron was two points behind the leaders. Why shouldn't he withdraw if he is having a bad tournament? Should an IM be forced to play a couple of Experts in the last rounds of a tournament where his chances of winning any prize money is zero?

Yes, he most certainly should. THIS is a national championship after all. In fact, I played in a very strong GM/IM norm event in Phoenix in June and I became quite good friends with the sponsor (he was sponsoring the tournament through his company, Abstrax). This guy was just great, he provided the playing hall , Gatorade , fruit platters on demand, various foods, and provided full lunch platters for players. He did many more things actually, he was a very personal and friendly sponsor who was actually there. He drove the players back and forth (10 blocks) before/after their games, took them out to eat, and he even provided little things like lending some of the players tennis racquet's and balls etc. This guy's name is John Lalonde and he will be sponsoring it next year I believe so if you can make it, I highly recommend it for hot weather and nice chess. Anyways, I was sort of interested into why he would sponsor a chess event. I've tried figuring out ways for a sponsor to get a good return (or at least decent) but I haven't found one. So, I asked him one time why is he sponsoring a chess event. I said that he wouldn't get too much out of it financial-wise. And he replied that he knew that, however his son was a chess player and he also wanted to contribute to the community. He also sponsors some sport clubs. This was also the time of the tournament players with withdrawing. He told me that as a sponsor it's the thing that he dislikes most and there will be a penalty next year I believe. Withdrawing in a Canadian Championship is pretty ridiculous I think. Luckily it wasn't done too much,(kudos to Krnan and Noritsyn for sticking in) but it makes a tournament look bad and unprofessional, and also will scare away potential sponsors. And the other minor side problem, is that players may get byes as a result. The only cases should be if they have an emergency, then they can withdraw. I wasn't planning on posting in this thread until someone defended Ron's unprofessional behavior.