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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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Chess is a game of perfect information. Two perfect chess players cannot ever win a game against one another if the entire search tree is known to both of them.
Time controls are an element of chance because it can't be known or predicted (accurately) how much time either player will need to play at his or her best, nor is it known in advance exactly how much of that time needed the player will ACTUALLY use.
A player might move quicker than he or she needs to play at his or her best.
A player might also play more slowly than he or she needs to play at his or her best, leaving less time for future moves.
"Just walk a mile in his moccasins
Before you abuse, criticize and accuse.
If just for one hour, you could find a way
To see through his eyes, instead of your own muse".
- Mary T. Lathrap (1895)
PP, when you can best Magnus over the board, perhaps
your posts will have some relevance. Until then - Ichabod!
Oh really? One must have supreme chess skills to have a valid viewpoint? Let's make Magnus King of the World then.
What's really the case is that when Magnus can best or at least equal the best chess engines over the board in slow time controls, his chess skills will have something close to the relevance that others give them even while he cannot hold a candle to the chess engines.
Magnus more than any other player in chess history gets involved in long endgames going beyond let's say 80+ moves. I haven't verified that, I don't know if it can even be verified, but I am sure it is the case. Thats what it takes to win in computer chess, and Magnus uses it to win in human chess more than any other player. Of course, I am referring to what is called "slow" time controls. Rapid and blitz are different games altogether, and I believe Magnus is not as dominant in those time controls.
Interesting! It can be easily verified.
He just won 2023 SuperUnited Rapid & Blitz ... not dominant performance but he still won.
.
Last edited by Neil Frarey; Monday, 28th August, 2023, 01:45 AM.
"Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!" - Billy Connolly. Something similar used to be a favourite expression of Jan Gustafsson.
"Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!" - Billy Connolly. Something similar used to be a favourite expression of Jan Gustafsson.
You have correctly identified the one aspect of chess that could make it a sport: time controls.
All sport involves an element of chance.
Time controls are the one and only element of chance in chess.
But again I will say .... under ANY time control, Magnus gets humiliated by the best chess software.
But he beats all other humans because his playing is closest to the style of computer software: centipawn advantages built up ply by ply.
Magnus more than any other player in chess history gets involved in long endgames going beyond let's say 80+ moves. I haven't verified that, I don't know if it can even be verified, but I am sure it is the case. Thats what it takes to win in computer chess, and Magnus uses it to win in human chess more than any other player. Of course, I am referring to what is called "slow" time controls. Rapid and blitz are different games altogether, and I believe Magnus is not as dominant in those time controls.
"Just walk a mile in his moccasins
Before you abuse, criticize and accuse.
If just for one hour, you could find a way
To see through his eyes, instead of your own muse".
- Mary T. Lathrap (1895)
PP, when you can best Magnus over the board, perhaps
your posts will have some relevance. Until then - Ichabod!
I saw these hand drawn graphs done by GM David Bronstein (hero) ... they charted the time his opponents took when a position became multi-layered and problematic.
Chess is a human game.
Sport is a human endeavor.
You have correctly identified the one aspect of chess that could make it a sport: time controls.
All sport involves an element of chance.
Time controls are the one and only element of chance in chess.
But again I will say .... under ANY time control, Magnus gets humiliated by the best chess software.
But he beats all other humans because his playing is closest to the style of computer software: centipawn advantages built up ply by ply.
Magnus more than any other player in chess history gets involved in long endgames going beyond let's say 80+ moves. I haven't verified that, I don't know if it can even be verified, but I am sure it is the case. Thats what it takes to win in computer chess, and Magnus uses it to win in human chess more than any other player. Of course, I am referring to what is called "slow" time controls. Rapid and blitz are different games altogether, and I believe Magnus is not as dominant in those time controls.
Last edited by Pargat Perrer; Sunday, 27th August, 2023, 06:19 AM.
Chess is a sport. Yes, chess is recognized by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) as a sport. More than 100 countries recognize Chess as a sport as well. And like any sport, it is played between humans. Androids or software do not matter. When Chess is played as a sport, it is humans only competing one another.
Is chess an Olympic sport 2024? Chess was not chosen as a sport to be included into Paris 2024 Olympic Games.
When was chess last in the Olympics? The closest it got was in the year 2000, a year after the committee recognised chess as a sport. At the Sydney Olympics, Vishy Anand and Alexei Shirov played each other as part of an exhibition event.
Huh .... I guess the IOC is just playing with people's minds. Kind of like fascists dressed as Libertarians.
But I DO accept and acknowledge that sport is played between humans.
What I said, and you didn't include it in your quote, is that I find it AMUSING in the case of chess (not a sport, by the way) where software does such a better job ... and everyone puts the best human up on a pedestal as if he is the greatest player to ever play the game. They leave out the "human" part.
Oh my God, did I violate Natural Law? LOL
I saw these hand drawn graphs done by GM David Bronstein (hero) ... they charted the time his opponents took when a position became multi-layered and problematic.
But I DO accept and acknowledge that sport is played between humans.
What I said, and you didn't include it in your quote, is that I find it AMUSING in the case of chess (not a sport, by the way) where software does such a better job ... and everyone puts the best human up on a pedestal as if he is the greatest player to ever play the game. They leave out the "human" part.
Chess is a sport. Yes, chess is recognized by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) as a sport. More than 100 countries recognize Chess as a sport as well. And like any sport, it is played between humans. Androids or software do not matter. When Chess is played as a sport, it is humans only competing one another.
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Saturday, 26th August, 2023, 11:12 PM.
Why is it so difficult for you to accept and acknowledge that sports is played between humans? Androids or cheetahs or fishes do not matter in sports.
But I DO accept and acknowledge that sport is played between humans.
What I said, and you didn't include it in your quote, is that I find it AMUSING in the case of chess (not a sport, by the way) where software does such a better job ... and everyone puts the best human up on a pedestal as if he is the greatest player to ever play the game. They leave out the "human" part.
It would be like if there was an android humanoid that had a human-like body and could run the 100 yard dash in r seconds (without using any kind of jet thrusters, just a running motion), and everyone is still dazzled by the fastest human running it in just over 9 seconds. LOL.
Why is it so difficult for you to accept and acknowledge that sports is played between humans? Androids or cheetahs or fishes do not matter in sports.
GM Magnus Carlsen ... why can't this guy be stopped???
Technically chess speaking, of course.
He can be stopped ... by Stockfish or AlphaZero. Under any time control, Magnus would be embarrassed and humiliated. It always amuses me that people, even chessplayers, just don't acknowledge this.
It would be like if there was an android humanoid that had a human-like body and could run the 100 yard dash in r seconds (without using any kind of jet thrusters, just a running motion), and everyone is still dazzled by the fastest human running it in just over 9 seconds. LOL
The reason other humans can't stop Magnus is because he plays more like a computer engine than any of them.
What does that mean? Think about centipawn advantages building up move by move.
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