Chess ’N Math Association Canada and the Max Chess Academy sued over cheating claim

[John Coleman]

You are assuming wrongly that Neil is trying to generate good ideas for the CFC. He is but an agent of chaos doing the work of his Dark Lord.

No Vlad, he's not that important. Just a disordered mind.

[Vlad Drkulec]

These don't look like good ideas, Neil. Why should the CFC insert itself into a dispute in which it has no direct involvement?

You are assuming wrongly that Neil is trying to generate good ideas for the CFC. He is but an agent of chaos doing the work of his Dark Lord.

[Olga Mushtaler]

Neil Frarey If you think I just come and chat here about chess, you are mistaken - I run a 2000-member chess club and have plenty to do in chess besides this chat.

[Olga Mushtaler]

Have you reached out to Cecil, Olga?

Seriously, have you?

Or for this matter, reached out to NM Luc Poitras?

Huh?

I'm thinking ... nope.




...

Neil Frarey
Excuse me? I can ask you same question - have you reached out to Cecil Rosner? Have you reached out to Stormy Daniels about hush money received from Donald Trump? No? Why not?

If I say we need Cecil Rosner - it is just an idea. The idea is not for me to act on, as I am not a lawyer or a witness in this case.

[Peter McKillop]

Have you reached out to Cecil, Olga?

Seriously, have you?

Or for this matter, reached out to NM Luc Poitras?

Huh?

I'm thinking ... nope.

...

These don't look like good ideas, Neil. Why should the CFC insert itself into a dispute in which it has no direct involvement?

[Tom O'Donnell]

A Gell-Mann amnesia effect example.

[Neil Frarey]

We need Cecil Rosner to 'fix' this journalist fast. Cecil Rosner teaches a course on investigative journalism, and this is the type of stuff he is dealing with. The word prodigy is innacurate and is used by the journalist to create suspense and drama. The kid is NOT prodigy at all.

Have you reached out to Cecil, Olga?

Seriously, have you?

Or for this matter, reached out to NM Luc Poitras?

Huh?

I'm thinking ... nope.




...

[Olga Mushtaler]

We need Cecil Rosner to 'fix' this journalist fast. Cecil Rosner teaches a course on investigative journalism, and this is the type of stuff he is dealing with. The word prodigy is innacurate and is used by the journalist to create suspense and drama. The kid is NOT prodigy at all.

[John Coleman]

Wow, teen prodigy ... one regular-rated tournament, provisional rating of 833. Two quick-rated tournaments, provisional rating 1157. Next stop... the world championship?

[Stephen Wright]

Patrick, I do NOT see him in the CFC database. He is in the CMA database rated 751.

Try https://www.chess.ca/en/ratings/p/?id=177511

[Vlad Drkulec]

Thanks for the informative reply Vlad

You are very welcome, Hans.

[Vlad Drkulec]

The commentary section on the original article has been closed.

People use the descriptor of prodigy somewhat loosely. When all else fails, blame racism.

I wonder how much the lawyers are costing everyone.

Apparently the game was played on the school's own custom online platform so no involvement from chess.com nor lichess.org. There are a lot of legal protections built in to their platform user agreements.

[Hans Jung]

Thanks for the informative reply Vlad

[Vlad Drkulec]

Interesting it took until now for this to happen. Good thing as Patrick said it shouldnt be a very complicated case.

It took until now for this to happen because when similar things happened before involving CFC play we took a page from the USCF which has well developed policies in this area including due process

Every case is different but there are instances where I believe that the online platforms get it wrong and flag players for cheating when they are not cheating. Rapidly improving young players seem to be the ones that suffer from this the most.

I have sat through the Chess.com presentation which explains their system for cheating detection, and have had a presentation by their mathematical wizard and I have signed a non-disclosure agreement. I have also been accepted as an expert on this topic by chess.com in one case where a player was appealing their suspension. Before I signed the NDA agreement I have also provided advice to players on how to minimize the risk of being flagged as a cheater. Nothing that I learned after the presentation and NDA has changed the prescription. If you are playing on chess.com or lichess.org, do not have other applications open and do not change your focus.

People have been suspended for changing their focus to their homework in Word on lichess. They have also been suspended for having chessbase running in the background. You can get suspended for what happens in unrated games.

Just because something is an uncomplicated case does not make it better when you are dealing with sometimes unsophisticated courts and an uneducated public. When we were sued for copyright violation, the case was nonsensical and all of the precedent was on our side but you still have to go to court and fight it.

[Vlad Drkulec]

I haven't seen the games so I can't comment, but there is something a bit off in this article as a fairly inactive National Master who has only played a few games of rated quick chess in the last decade and a half with a very poor result in a 2023 quick event is apparently somehow considered equivalent to an international master and distinguished professor who is widely considered the world authority on chess cheating in Dr. Kenneth Regan.

I think we settled on using two cameras simultaneously to give a full view of the playing area and player when the CFC was organizing some online youth events during the pandemic.

Fast improving juniors can be flagged (falsely in my opinion in some cases) on online platforms, if they show rapid improvement.

Due process is important if only to protect the chess federation and organizers as well as the player.

Often there is a rush to judgment by people who know nothing.

Legal proceedings can be a pain for everyone but the lawyers.

I am happy that the CFC is not involved in this case.