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As you said above, we obviously disagree on what constitutes a conflict of interest. If Governors are not allowed to vote for bids of which they are part of the organizing committee, you will inevitably get a situation where no bids will be put forth by Governors.
Should a group of people who want to submit a bid to organize one of the CFC's fixture events be entitled to the expectation that their bid will be considered fairly and objectively by the CFC, or not? If your answer is that they should be entitled to that expectation, then explain to me how the CFC can satisfy that expectation by having decision makers who sit on the organizing committees of competing bidders? Seriously, explain it to me.
Any governor who would avoid becoming involved with the organization of a tournament for fear that s/he wouldn't be allowed to vote for their own tournament isn't worth a pinch of you-know-what as far as I'm concerned.
As you said above, we obviously disagree on what constitutes a conflict of interest. If Governors are not allowed to vote for bids of which they are part of the organizing committee, you will inevitably get a situation where no bids will be put forth by Governors.
If a person gains in a material manner from a motion s/he should declare their conflict of interest and recuse themselves.
If 20 Governors put together a bid for a tournament from which they were not going to benefit personally in a material way, they should be free to vote in favor of their bid.
I wonder when the last time was that twenty governors were on the organizing committee of a group bidding for a tournament? Let's say that I'm part of the organizing committee for a competing bid. Let's say that there are no governors on the organizing committee I've joined. Let's say that, by some reasonable criteria, the bid I'm associated with is as good as, or even slightly better than, the 20-governor bid. Let's suppose that the bid I'm associated with loses the vote and that all of the governors associated with the 20-governor bid cast their ballots for their own bid. Is it a good idea to leave third parties with the impression that my bid lost because we didn't have the decision making body 'stacked' with our 'own' governors?
Please see Ken MacDonald's post in this thread. The perception of conflict can be just as damaging as the real McCoy (but perhaps I'm only hallucinating )
I think Ken's point of view is the one the Ethics Committee is going to hear the most in the submissions to them from the governors, given the debate on the Governors' Board so far. I think Peter's view is in the minority re this particular issue ( ie. tournament bids ).
I also think, in some other situations, some governors agree the definition should be the broader one.
If a person gains in a material manner from a motion s/he should declare their conflict of interest and recuse themselves.
If 20 Governors put together a bid for a tournament from which they were not going to benefit personally in a material way, they should be free to vote in favor of their bid.
what I think is that you are creating mountains out of mole hills and hallucinating an imaginary conflict of interest.
Well, of course I disagree. :) At the very least, Roger, just so everyone is on the same wavelength, the CFC needs to take the following section from the Handbook and either expand it to include the CFC's definition of conflict of interest or, if the matter is just going to be treated as a joke by supposedly responsible people, get rid of the section altogether:
Originally posted by From CFC Handbook
CONFLICT OF INTEREST
Whenever a proposal is being considered which puts any CFC officer in a potential conflict of interest he shall declare the conflict and abstain from discussion, voting or other involvement in the matter.
Hi Peter, There is a debate over whether the first paragraph you wrote is a conflict of interest if a financial gain is not involved.
I've made my point of view clear, i.e. that conflict of interest should be (and is, in the real world,) more broadly defined. If people disagree, that's their prerogative. Where do you stand?
Simply knowing someone does not, in and of itself, create a conflict of interest. What is your point here, Roger? Are you suggesting that because the CFC is a small organization that, therefore, it doesn't have to set a high ethical standard for the conduct of its business? That's ridiculous.
what I think is that you are creating mountains out of mole hills and hallucinating an imaginary conflict of interest.
Are there any indications Peter that indivdiuals who voted on the CO and CYCC bids were in conflict of interest?
Hi Ken. I forget who first brought this up, but someone put the question (paraphrasing): can an individual be part of the organizing committee for one bid and still exercise their duty of impartiality as a governor with respect to assessing competing bids? I say no. I say that that individual has a conflict of interest, that s/he should openly declare that conflict, and that s/he should then withdraw from discussion/voting on the matter at hand if it is deemed (by whom? a CFC ethics committee perhaps?) that the conflict is material.
In the case of the 2011 CYCC, I believe the matter of conflict was amicably resolved among the bidding parties by Bob Gillanders. So the question now is, to paraphrase Bob Armstrong, what will be the CFC's ethical policies/guidelines for the future.
Are you suggesting that because the CFC is a small organization that, therefore, it doesn't have to set a high ethical standard for the conduct of its business?
Peter, there is a spot on the Ethics Committee. It looks you would be a good candidate to craft the high ethical standard.
Re: Too Many Hats to Wear and so little time -- Re: Vote or No Vote for the Chair?
Originally posted by Mark S. Dutton, I.A.View Post
... Many of us in the chess community wear many different hats. ...
Wearing "many different hats" does not necessarily cause conflict of interest. Nowhere in my posts did I say that people should not be allowed to wear many different hats. However, **IF** a conflict of interest should arise as a consequence of wearing different hats, then that individual should be expected to do the ethically correct thing, namely: declare the conflict and let others who are involved decide whether the conflict is material and warrants that individual excusing themselves from discussion/decision making/etc.
What is so difficult about this? Whether it's an old hand, like a Roger Patterson or a Mark Dutton, or someone new to the game, shouldn't everyone who bids for the right to run a CFC event be entitled to believe that their bid will be assessed objectively and impartially on the basis of its merits?
... And do you think that there is any group of active governors who would not have some history of association with any plausible group of bidders? ...
Simply knowing someone does not, in and of itself, create a conflict of interest. What is your point here, Roger? Are you suggesting that because the CFC is a small organization that, therefore, it doesn't have to set a high ethical standard for the conduct of its business? That's ridiculous.
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