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  • Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
    Democratic Marxism
    (Started: 24/1/3)

    B. Goal of this Thread[LIST][*]To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)[*]To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.




    Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI) - 2024
    1. It is still Marxism, a system seriously detrimental to society.
    2. Huge Minuses, as already described. Cannot remember any valid pluses being shown.

    Comment


    • A History of the Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

      About the Founder

      The first federal election the founder, Bob Armstrong of Canada, voted in was in 1968. He became eligible to vote at 21 y.o. in the summer of 1966 (The voting age was not lowered in Canada to 18 years old until 1970) , He voted Liberal for the exciting young former Justice Minister from Quebec, Pierre E. Trudeau (His Mother and Father were died-in-the-wool Liberals).

      But about a year or so later he believes he formally joined the social democratic party, the New Democratic Party of Canada (He says this needs to be checked since his memory of this is now long gone). In the 1972 federal election, he voted for the NDP, then under David Lewis (Trudeau got just a minority).

      He remained a member almost continuously after that, hoping the party would go left. He worked numerous federal and provincial elections, in campaign offices, canvassing by phone and on the doorstep, pulling votes on voting day, scrutineering for the NDP, attending riding association meetings, etc. At some point he did become interested in the writings and societal analysis of the German, Karl Marx. Later he took up the new platform of Democratic Marxism (As opposed to the old-style USSR Communism).

      In 2019 – 20, he again went back to reading political theory. He read both the Communist Manifesto of Marx, and some early writings of Marx on philosophy and society. He read the Canadian socialist writings, the Waffle Manifesto (1969), and the NDP's Socialist Caucus' Manifesto for a Socialist Canada (2001). He added to his reading list the more recent book on socialism, The Socialist Manifesto by Bhaskar Sunkara. He added the book on Democratic Marxism by Kenneth Megill: "The New Democratic Theory". He admitted to being only an “armchair” Marxist, and now was playing some catch-up.... after already claiming to be in the mainstream of Marxism!

      Then, after more than 50 years as an NDP'er, on Oct. 24, 2020, Bob resigned his NDP 2020 membership.

      He concluded that the NDP jalopy was simply not up to the task. A new vehicle was needed.

      The Founding of the DMGI

      On July 10, 2019, Bob founded the Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI). Its first public presence was on Facebook - a page called: Democratic Marxist - Global (https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-...dmin_todo_tour). It is intended to follow up with a website (Subject to volunteer and funds). B

      Bob then wrote a number of documents for DMGI. The first document he called "The Father's Day Manifesto" - a bit high-falutin' but he thought, or at least hoped, it was somewhat of an original concept, the way he was elaborating it.

      He then wrote 5 discussion papers for DMGI that were posted on its Fb page.

      The DMGI then started a political/current events discussion group under its Fb page: Democratic Marxist Global Forum (https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045711862207056/?fref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus). He did not spend much time marketing either DMGI or this group.....but it does now have almost 40 members from various countries. There is not a lot of exchange within it yet, but Bob does post regularly to it, and just recently a member made a number of posts. As well, recently the number of likes of the page have been increasing, and the group has added about a dozen new members.

      On November 6, 2020, Bob issued the initial governance rules for the DMGI:
      1. Membership

        a. One member/One vote (Subject to the subsequent rules below);

        b. Membership Fees – 16 y.o & over: $ 5 (Can.) annually by calendar year; after June 30 - $ 3 Can.
      1. Officer Resignation – election as soon as possible after notice of election, and Candidates List distribution. But there shall be at least a one-week to allow Candidate campaigning.
      2. Recall Vote

        a. can open up position of Interim Coordinator position;

        b. recall requires 50% + 1;

        c. anti-hijacking – no recall is possible until 3 years after the founding of DMGI (Founded on July 10, 2019);

        d. non-harassment – there must be at least a one year interval between recall votes.
      3. First Annual General Meeting – Will be held at the start of 2022 sometime in January, to plan the coming year; thereafter annually in the same month.
      4. Amendments – There shall be no motion to amend these rules unless the introduction of the motion is unanimously supported, prior to the 3rd anniversary of DMGI. Thereafter only 50% + 1 of the membership will be required to introduce the motion.
      The Father's Day Manifesto Challenge

      The Manifesto proposes that democratic Marxism need not start at the national level. It recommends taking control of mid-level bodies (States, Provinces, etc.).

      This challenge was first taken up in Canada, in the Province of Ontario, when, on Oct. 1, 2020, Bob founded the Democratic Marxist Party of Ontario (DMPO). DMPO's first public presence was through a Fb page using its own name (https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-...10768894126939). It advised viewers of the page, that party discussion of posts, and democratic Marxism generally, would take place, with permission, in the Fb discussion group of DMGI.

      Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

      Author: Bob Armstrong, DMGI Coordinator

      Original – 20/11/16

      Distribution: 24/7/2: (CT.DM;DMPO;DM;DMGF;TRN)

      Contact Us: Via Fb:

      a. Page: Democratic Marxism - Global:
      https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-Marxism-Global-748579292265552/?modal=admin_todo_tour

      b. Group: Democratic Marxist Global Forum:
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus

      E-mail:

      demmarxglobalin@gmail.com

      Snail Mail:

      DMGI

      P.O. Box 3246,

      Meaford, Ontario, Canada

      N4L 1A5


      Website:

      In development



      Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute - 2020

















      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post

        1. It is still Marxism, a system seriously detrimental to society.
        Uncorroborated as is everything you post.

        This is like saying peanut butter is bad for you because it has the word "butter" in it and butter is not healthy.

        Butter is healthy in limited quantities, and peanut butter is called that because it has the consistency of butter which people like.

        So Democratic Marxism might be called that by Bob A. because it retains the good aspects of Marxism that people like.

        Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post
        2. Huge Minuses, as already described. Cannot remember any valid pluses being shown.


        "Cannot remember" .... yeah, that says it all. Go to a mental health doctor.

        Comment


        • Hi Bob 'click bait' A..,

          Just curious about your thoughts on copyright infringement and property rights in general.







          .
          Last edited by Neil Frarey; Tuesday, 2nd July, 2024, 07:50 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
            A History of the Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

            About the Founder

            The first federal election the founder, Bob Armstrong of Canada, voted in was in 1968. He became eligible to vote at 21 y.o. in the summer of 1966 (The voting age was not lowered in Canada to 18 years old until 1970) , He voted Liberal for the exciting young former Justice Minister from Quebec, Pierre E. Trudeau (His Mother and Father were died-in-the-wool Liberals).

            But about a year or so later he believes he formally joined the social democratic party, the New Democratic Party of Canada (He says this needs to be checked since his memory of this is now long gone). In the 1972 federal election, he voted for the NDP, then under David Lewis (Trudeau got just a minority).

            He remained a member almost continuously after that, hoping the party would go left. He worked numerous federal and provincial elections, in campaign offices, canvassing by phone and on the doorstep, pulling votes on voting day, scrutineering for the NDP, attending riding association meetings, etc. At some point he did become interested in the writings and societal analysis of the German, Karl Marx. Later he took up the new platform of Democratic Marxism (As opposed to the old-style USSR Communism).

            In 2019 – 20, he again went back to reading political theory. He read both the Communist Manifesto of Marx, and some early writings of Marx on philosophy and society. He read the Canadian socialist writings, the Waffle Manifesto (1969), and the NDP's Socialist Caucus' Manifesto for a Socialist Canada (2001). He added to his reading list the more recent book on socialism, The Socialist Manifesto by Bhaskar Sunkara. He added the book on Democratic Marxism by Kenneth Megill: "The New Democratic Theory". He admitted to being only an “armchair” Marxist, and now was playing some catch-up.... after already claiming to be in the mainstream of Marxism!

            Then, after more than 50 years as an NDP'er, on Oct. 24, 2020, Bob resigned his NDP 2020 membership.

            He concluded that the NDP jalopy was simply not up to the task. A new vehicle was needed.

            The Founding of the DMGI

            On July 10, 2019, Bob founded the Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI). Its first public presence was on Facebook - a page called: Democratic Marxist - Global (https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-...dmin_todo_tour). It is intended to follow up with a website (Subject to volunteer and funds). B

            Bob then wrote a number of documents for DMGI. The first document he called "The Father's Day Manifesto" - a bit high-falutin' but he thought, or at least hoped, it was somewhat of an original concept, the way he was elaborating it.

            He then wrote 5 discussion papers for DMGI that were posted on its Fb page.

            The DMGI then started a political/current events discussion group under its Fb page: Democratic Marxist Global Forum (https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045711862207056/?fref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus). He did not spend much time marketing either DMGI or this group.....but it does now have almost 40 members from various countries. There is not a lot of exchange within it yet, but Bob does post regularly to it, and just recently a member made a number of posts. As well, recently the number of likes of the page have been increasing, and the group has added about a dozen new members.

            On November 6, 2020, Bob issued the initial governance rules for the DMGI:
            1. Membership

              a. One member/One vote (Subject to the subsequent rules below);

              b. Membership Fees – 16 y.o & over: $ 5 (Can.) annually by calendar year; after June 30 - $ 3 Can.
            1. Officer Resignation – election as soon as possible after notice of election, and Candidates List distribution. But there shall be at least a one-week to allow Candidate campaigning.
            2. Recall Vote

              a. can open up position of Interim Coordinator position;

              b. recall requires 50% + 1;

              c. anti-hijacking – no recall is possible until 3 years after the founding of DMGI (Founded on July 10, 2019);

              d. non-harassment – there must be at least a one year interval between recall votes.
            3. First Annual General Meeting – Will be held at the start of 2022 sometime in January, to plan the coming year; thereafter annually in the same month.
            4. Amendments – There shall be no motion to amend these rules unless the introduction of the motion is unanimously supported, prior to the 3rd anniversary of DMGI. Thereafter only 50% + 1 of the membership will be required to introduce the motion.
            The Father's Day Manifesto Challenge

            The Manifesto proposes that democratic Marxism need not start at the national level. It recommends taking control of mid-level bodies (States, Provinces, etc.).

            This challenge was first taken up in Canada, in the Province of Ontario, when, on Oct. 1, 2020, Bob founded the Democratic Marxist Party of Ontario (DMPO). DMPO's first public presence was through a Fb page using its own name (https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-...10768894126939). It advised viewers of the page, that party discussion of posts, and democratic Marxism generally, would take place, with permission, in the Fb discussion group of DMGI.

            Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

            Author: Bob Armstrong, DMGI Coordinator

            Original – 20/11/16

            Distribution: 24/7/2: (CT.DM;DMPO;DM;DMGF;TRN)

            Contact Us: Via Fb:

            a. Page: Democratic Marxism - Global:
            https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-Marxism-Global-748579292265552/?modal=admin_todo_tour

            b. Group: Democratic Marxist Global Forum:
            https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus

            E-mail:

            demmarxglobalin@gmail.com

            Snail Mail:

            DMGI

            P.O. Box 3246,

            Meaford, Ontario, Canada

            N4L 1A5


            Website:

            In development



            Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute - 2020





            Hi Bob,
            That sounds like an emotional life-time journey by a good man in search of political truth! I wish you all the best in finally arriving at the truth by realizing that the good of all in society lies with Libertarianism...

            Comment


            • Hi Neil:

              Re Post 379 (24/7/2)

              1. Copyright/Patent - I support it. But in some cases, it would have been better if it had been in the public domain from the start. In a cooperative economic system like Democratic Marxism, this will have to be carefully analyzed.

              2. Small personal property - respected under Democratic Marxism.

              3. Bourgeois Capital - will be banned under Democratic Marxism. Capital needed for enterprise will be dealt with differently, and profits will be heavily taxed so as not to allow it to give return wildly disproportionate to labour.

              Bob A (Democratic Marxist)

              Comment


              • Democratic Marxism
                (Started: 24/1/3)

                Weekly Overview

                Notes:
                1. The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.
                2. The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, they show that those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic
                Click image for larger version

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                A. Statistics


                1. Weekly Stats:

                Week # 27 of 2024 (7/1-7 [7 days])

                (Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)


                .....................................................2024 Average
                Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day
                Views/Day........Views/Day.............(27 wks.)

                ….…13...................12.......................23


                ................................................2024 Average

                Last Week's.....Prior Week's......Responses/Day

                Responses/Day....Resp./Day.......(27 wks.).

                ........1......................1......................2


                2. Analysis of Last Week's Stats


                Last week's stats are consistent with the prior week – steady interest and participation. But they lag behind the year's stats. This is understandable since at the start there was a flurry of responses. The current rate of response is now only about ½ the year to date (Which is heavily weighted by the beginning period).

                More discussion/increased participation does happen when a current controversial issue is brought into the thread. The thread does involve discussion of current political affairs from the different perspectives of the various participants, so “current” issues do arise.

                Fundamentally, though, this thread is an “educational” thread about something that may not be that attractive to some CT'ers. Nonetheless, the yearly average stats for this thread (Per day: Views – 24; Responses - 2) are good.

                The stats do show that CT'ers are interested in learning more about DM, and about government from the DM perspective. This thread is an opportunity to learn something about the political system known as “Democratic Marxism”! It is also an opportunity to question DM in a good and safe forum, where we try to respect the right of all CT'ers to have their own analysis, and to be entitled to put it forward for consideration, even if differing from DM.

                Note: I, as originator/main poster, am now just posting per week, on Mondays, the past week's stats, and on Tuesdays, 1 DM discussion paper. But I do try to respond to response questions, and introduce new “current” topics when they seem appropriate, especially re “current events”. So, overall, it is expected that the stats have slowly come down, and are now at a slower, steady pace.


                B. Goal of this Thread
                • To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)
                • To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.

                Additional Notes:

                1. The goal of this thread is not to try to beat opposing views into oblivion. Political economy spans the spectrum. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide among the many competing political philosophies.

                2. CT'ers are welcome to post responses here regularly, in addition to our core group of very active responders.



                Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)



                Author: Bob Armstrong, DMGI Coordinator

                Most Recent Revision: 24/7/7

                Fb Page: Democratic Marxism – Global

                (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064839518717)

                Fb Group: Democratic Marxist Global Forum

                https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus

                E-mail:

                demmarxglobalin@gmail.com

                Snail Mail:

                DMGI

                P.O. Box 3246,

                Meaford, Ontario, Canada

                N4L 1A5

                Website:

                In development



                Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI) - 2024

                Comment


                • Americas - Argentina

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                  Libertarianism's 1 st Chance at Power

                  "Halfway into President Javier Milei’s first calendar year in office, Argentina is mired in a deep recession after the far-right economist devalued the country’s currency and eroded shoppers’ purchasing power. Pork and poultry cost roughly half as much as beef, which has translated into a 110-year-low when it comes to consumption of the latter in the usually beef-crazy country."


                  "Milei’s Austerity Plan Pushes Argentina Into Recession in First Quarter
                  • GDP in 1Q fell 5.1% vs year ago; declined 2.6% vs 4Q 2023
                  • After 4Q 2023 contraction, Argentina enters recession"
                  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-first-quarter

                  Libertarianism is not "viable".

                  Bob A (DM'ist)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
                    Americas - Argentina

                    Click image for larger version

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                    Libertarianism's 1 st Chance at Power

                    "Halfway into President Javier Milei’s first calendar year in office, Argentina is mired in a deep recession after the far-right economist devalued the country’s currency and eroded shoppers’ purchasing power. Pork and poultry cost roughly half as much as beef, which has translated into a 110-year-low when it comes to consumption of the latter in the usually beef-crazy country."


                    "Milei’s Austerity Plan Pushes Argentina Into Recession in First Quarter
                    • GDP in 1Q fell 5.1% vs year ago; declined 2.6% vs 4Q 2023
                    • After 4Q 2023 contraction, Argentina enters recession"
                    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-first-quarter

                    Libertarianism is not "viable".

                    Bob A (DM'ist)
                    You conveniently omitted this part of the article;


                    "The painful contraction in activity has nonetheless seen the government post five consecutive monthly budget surpluses and a faster-than-expected easing of monthly inflation, from 25.5% in December to 4.2% in May. The International Monetary Fund expects a potential stabilization in activity in April as private credit and cement consumption tick back up, agricultural production rebounds after last year’s drought and consumer confidence gains ground, according to their latest Argentina report.

                    Economists surveyed by the central bank estimate GDP will fall 3.8% this year, followed by 3.4% growth in 2025. Milei’s hallmark legislation is expected to win final approval in the lower house later this week, which is expected to contribute significantly to the rebound by relaxing labor laws, deregulating the energy sector and incentivizing large foreign investments through tax breaks."

                    Do you seriously think that 25% ++ a month inflation is a great alternative system?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
                      Americas - Argentina

                      Click image for larger version  Name:	Flag Argentina.jpg Views:	0 Size:	9.4 KB ID:	234823

                      Libertarianism's 1 st Chance at Power

                      "Halfway into President Javier Milei’s first calendar year in office, Argentina is mired in a deep recession after the far-right economist devalued the country’s currency and eroded shoppers’ purchasing power. Pork and poultry cost roughly half as much as beef, which has translated into a 110-year-low when it comes to consumption of the latter in the usually beef-crazy country."


                      "Milei’s Austerity Plan Pushes Argentina Into Recession in First Quarter
                      • GDP in 1Q fell 5.1% vs year ago; declined 2.6% vs 4Q 2023
                      • After 4Q 2023 contraction, Argentina enters recession"
                      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-first-quarter

                      Libertarianism is not "viable".

                      Bob A (DM'ist)
                      Milei has kept Argentina 'alive' and viable... without him it would be 'dead' by now... just like any other country which has adopted Marxism, democratically or not...
                      Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Tuesday, 9th July, 2024, 08:34 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Hi Sid:

                        25+ % inflation is fatal, no doubt.

                        I am not defending the prior government of Argentina. It was being badly administered. It is the reason the Argentinians stampeded to the very far right, economically, into Libertarianism.

                        But my understanding is that currently the ordinary Argentinian worker is suffering worse than before, or maybe just the same. Economists are happy enough, as you say....not so for the ordinary Argentinian.

                        Also, is it unusual for the economists to put a rosy glow on unregulated capitalism, with over-the-top predictions for the future?

                        Bob A (DM'ist)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post

                          25+ % inflation is fatal, no doubt.

                          I am not defending the prior government of Argentina. It was being badly administered.

                          Bob A (DM'ist)
                          All the prior Argentina government was sincerely doing was practicing socialism/marxism, which you admire (though have never been able to explain why you admire this philosophy so deleterious to human society)!

                          Comment


                          • Democratic Marxism

                            Discussion Paper # 22

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                            Democratic Marxism in History

                            [Part I of 2 parts]



                            A. Chile – The Most Successful Implementation of Democratic Marxism

                            Marxism and Individual Liberty

                            Marxism does not equal no liberty and no democracy.

                            "Communism" as practised in the prior USSR, current day China, etc. basically does not trust the citizen.......it uses force to quell dissent, and force compliance......alleged democracy is a sham......never espoused by Marx, just his uninformed alleged followers.

                            Chile - A Shining Example

                            In our view, the closest to a nation implementing "Marxism" has been Chile, under Socialist President Salvadore Allende in the 70's. Wikipedia refers to him as a Marxist. We have spoken to Chileans there at the time, and they dispute that he was Communist/Marxist. They say he was Socialist. But he was very amenable to Marxism/Communism. And his was a coalition government with the Communist Party of Chile being a main partner. They always made demands that he go further left in his programs, to get their vote support. Allende was so comfortable with further left that he usually gave in and got their agreement and vote. Thus the blurring of the lines as to how far left Allende really was. And he was elected in a free and fair election. Allende was elected in 1970. Wikipedia notes:

                            "As a member of the SOCIALIST PARTY (emphasis added), he was a senator, deputy and cabinet minister. He unsuccessfully ran for the presidency in the 1952, 1958, and 1964 elections. In 1970, he won the presidency in a close three-way race. He was elected in a run-off by Congress as no candidate had gained a majority."

                            He was the President 'til 1973 - 3 successful years of implemented "almost Marxism". Wikipedia has this to say about the coalition government rule:

                            "As president, Allende adopted a policy of nationalization of industries and collectivization".

                            This seems to us pretty "almost Marxist", and democratically elected, and lasting three years....a successful example, though the overall effectiveness of his government as "almost Marxist" is always being analyzed.

                            Chile and the Chilean Army

                            When elected, Allende did not use the armed forces of the country as a tool of oppression of the people, as have almost all prior cases of alleged "national communism", such as USSR, China, etc. He left then General Augusto Pinochet as head of the armed forces, and did not interfere in their normal operation, since Chile had had 38 years by then of continuous democratic rule. In fact, the "alleged Communists" of the world, at the time, disagreed with Allende on this and ridiculed Allende for being so naive as to not realize that he had to take over the army, and use it to suppress his people and get compliance! What did he expect was going to happen?

                            End of the Almost Marxist Regime

                            The army, still under General Pinochet, felt that Chile was being hijacked (despite the earlier democratic vote), and the USA wanted him out, and were willing to assist Pinochet to do this. There was a violent coup by the army. Allende committed suicide after refusing to resign and giving his last Presidential speech. His suicide was a direct result of his being overthrown, and his Presidential palace being surrounded by armed troops who were going to arrest him, if not assassinate him.

                            Gen. Pinochet became President after Allende, after the successful coup.

                            The coup took place in 1973 (After 3 full years of successful Socialism/Marxism). Here is how Wikipedia describes this illegal and unconstitutional overthrow of a legitimate "Socialist/almost Marxist" coalition government:

                            "On 11 September 1973 the military moved to oust Allende in a coup d'état sponsored by the United States Central Intelligence Agency.[2][3][4] As troops surrounded La Moneda Palace, he gave his last speech vowing not to resign.[5] Later that day, Allende shot himself dead with an assault rifle[6] according to an 2011 investigation conducted by a Chilean court with the assistance of international experts.[7]"

                            [See Part II below]

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                            • Democratic Marxism in History (Continued)

                              Part II of 2 parts; see Part I above]


                              Gen. Pinochet became President after Allende, after the successful coup.

                              The coup took place in 1973 (After 3 full years of successful Socialism/Marxism). Here is how Wikipedia describes this illegal and unconstitutional overthrow of a legitimate "Socialist/almost Marxist" coalition government:

                              "On 11 September 1973 the military moved to oust Allende in a coup d'état sponsored by the United States Central Intelligence Agency.[2][3][4] As troops surrounded La Moneda Palace, he gave his last speech vowing not to resign.[5] Later that day, Allende shot himself dead with an assault rifle[6] according to an 2011 investigation conducted by a Chilean court with the assistance of international experts.[7]"

                              Gen. Pinochet appointed himself head of the ruling Military Junta/ President after the successful coup. Here is the aftermath, according to Wikipedia:

                              "Following Allende's deposition, army General Augusto Pinochet declined to return authority to the civilian government; and Chile became ruled by a military junta that was in power from 1973 to 1990, ending almost 41 years of Chilean democratic rule. The military junta that took over dissolved the Congress of Chile and began a persecution of alleged dissidents, in which thousands of Allende's supporters were murdered."

                              Evaluation of an "Almost Marxist" Country Example

                              To our knowledge, there is no other example in history of a successful, democratically elected, "almost Marxist" government. Chile seems to us pretty "almost Marxist" and democratically elected, and lasted three years. Unlike the "alleged communist" countries of USSR, China, etc., Allende did not use the armed forces of the country as a tool of oppression of the people. Alleged Communist countries did, and still do, obtain subservience to their imposed government by this method, where elections are/were a sham. This is a total misinterpretation of Marxism, world-wide, if there ever was one... original Marxism has individual freedom and democracy at its core, when properly implemented. Allende's Chile is a beacon of non-use of force to establish an "almost Marxist" society, despite it having lasted just 3 years.

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                              17/2/27 – DMGI Fb “Comment” re A Swedish Billionaire Will Award $5 Million For Re-imagining Global Governance

                              New Global Governance” cannot be dealt with separate from a “New Global Economic System”.

                              "Communism", as we've seen it practiced in history, has been a failure........a system must not have to abrogate the freedom of the citizens......they must be on board. The best system is Marxism, in my opinion. And the best example has been the socialist government of Salvadore Allende, in Chile (Though short-lived due to the army). It is often claimed, and even written that Allende was a communist. This is not true re partisan politics.....he was always, to my knowledge, part of the Socialist party (Though he clearly was quite amenable to Communism as practised in Chile). Allende needed the Communists to govern, and reached an accord with them that gave them some power. They used it to bargain with him, to move government policies further left. It is said he had little trouble giving in, since he was likely more left than his party. Here we had a freely elected government, that I believe is the closest to successful implementation of Marxism (Not "fascist-communism” as we've seen it in the USSR, etc.)


                              Documentation of USA Covert Actions to Overthrow Democratically-Elected Allende

                              https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F10%2F14%2Fworld%2Famericas%2Fchile-coup-cia-museum.html%3Femc%3Dedit_tnt_20171015%26nlid%3D3783759%26tntemail0%3Dy%26_r%3D2&h=ATP508SF53aZ9e4Eo2FRNVJmXqUsrUVvbcfQ9NNvZYlSNv6MPvfC2GqNwZyCqByQdVDfKY6XjHSiPvhu1HD-_ZNiMPPMXDVfvkJ3V5OAerEC-8APXifdmRHk9KURnJW0_8al6VEgYLyBFK5f24T0v2D9ou_nBS15GYvNPdgCqp6ky1ob4x_dow_hGyvOBGtbd3GaqcG8qMmNXoUwlSU4RXMzteAHimIaaQoKzT0xh0Sg_muzx4tNzPJ0X5DGmgxvD37H80qJMygGjpUnttSLfhRA1nT2

                              B. Dominican Republic and Marxism

                              1963 - 7 month revolutionary government, freely elected after long Trujillo dictatorship

                              Wikipedia -
                              Juan Emilio Bosch Gaviño (30 June 1909, La Vega – 1 November 2001, Santo Domingo) was a politician, historian, short story writer, essayist, educator, and the first democratically elected president of the Dominican Republic for a brief time in 1963. Previously, he had been the leader of the Dominican opposition in exile to the dictatorial regime of Rafael Trujillo for over 25 years. To this day he is remembered as an honest politician[1][2][3] and regarded as one of the most prominent writers in Dominican literature.[4][5][6] He founded both the Dominican Revolutionary Party (PRD) in 1939 and the Dominican Liberation Party (PLD) in 1973.

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                              • Hi Bob,
                                Why do you continue to deceive yourself? Sid has previously given you the full picture:
                                Allende first stole the major thriving businesses in Chile (in other words, nationalized the same paying the real owners a pittance of what the businesses were really worth), and so for a very short temporary period of time the citizens enjoyed that stolen wealth; however the economy soon started deteriorating and inflation rose to around triple digits (despite whatever economic collaboration was possible with other similarly dysfunctional socialist/Marxist countries), spreading unrest all around Chile. Pinochet and his supporters in the Capitalist countries (wrongly, I agree) took advantage of that to topple him...
                                It all only goes to support the notion that Marxism is seriously deleterious to human society, whether democratic or not...
                                Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Friday, 12th July, 2024, 07:24 PM.

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