Canadian Income Distribution

[Nigel Hanrahan]

Rob Ford and the ideology of "dark politics"

Taxes are so high that I vote for municipal politicians who can keep them down. I don't care about their personal life. I vote for the person I think will look after my interests. If you want to be a slave to an ideology that's your business but don't expect much sympathy from me.

I agree that it's about ideology. The ideology of hate, austerity for those who aren't the 1%, dark politics, and so on.

Rob Ford's personal conduct should not be separated from his politics. His personal conduct displays a lack of empathy and a sense of entitlement and so does his politics. And he certainly didn't rise to the office of Mayor alone. He had many backers right there with him. Enabling him all the way.

Ford's conduct is the politics of entitlement taken to an extreme. His addiction problems simply highlight how far you can go before you cross a line with a core segment of political and public supporters who are believers.

Whatever Ford does, no matter how out there it is, he has thus far managed to elude normal consequences. And as far as Ford Nation sees it, if anyone attempts to hold him accountable then they are the ones victimizing him.

That's usually just called brainwashing.

...

Ford was a clear and obvious liar before he was ever elected as Mayor. He clearly had substance abuse issues before he was elected. But the right didn't care. They supported his views, enabled him and aided his rise to power because ideology always trumps everything else in political extremes, whether it's right or left....

Now they divorce themselves from his antics and try to claim that his character is no reflection on their ideology. But it is profoundly a reflection of their ideology. For it was this ideology that gave them their willful blindness in the first place. Because there were plenty of others who could see Rob Ford for what he was right out of the gate.

Oh yeah. So, dark politics in a nutshell is what exactly?

Ideas such as the notion that the role of government should be increasingly inched towards the ultimate goal of doing little more than reducing taxes while begrudgingly still paying for things like the military and a few other "essential" services. That government should largely divorce itself from civic engagement or from acting as an equalizing mechanism. From fulfilling the collective will of the people.

Governments that continued the role they had for generations, even if they had balanced books, were labelled "tax-and-spend liberals." Meanwhile governments that cut services and turned surpluses into debt laid claim to being the fiscally responsible choice.

It was within this ideology that Rob Ford achieved his support. He would be the cost cutter -- cutting taxes, cutting government, taking care of your money. Don't look over there at the broader picture of multi-billion dollar multinationals getting billions in subsidies and tax breaks, look instead at how much money those lazy union protected city workers are getting! Don't peel back the curtain on what goes on with developments in Toronto, look at the "gravy" of municipal programs for the poor.

The dark clown

and there you have it. Well put, i must say. Rob Ford, exposed.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Rob Ford and the ideology of "dark politics"

Nigel, I don't understand your interest in Toronto as you seem to be a resident of Manitoba. What possible difference can it make to you who is the Toronto mayor.

I can see where you might be jealous of people in Ontario and why you attack what you see as wealth. Looking at the tax rate tables, Manitoba provincial rates are significantly higher than those in Ontario. Your sales tax is no bargain either.

Next to Sask. the Manitoba tax rates are the highest of any province on the lowest income earners. It seems an NDP government is expensive.

How do you explain fleecing the lowest income earners in this manner?

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

[Nigel Hanrahan]

Re: Rob Ford and the ideology of "dark politics"

I don't understand your interest in Toronto as you seem to be a resident of Manitoba.

Actually, I was born in Toronto, moved to Manitoba, and now live on the west coast. So I'm a Canuck.

In regard to your other comments, I'm neither jealous of wealth nor myopically concerned with tax rates as the core of Ford's supporters seem to be and as Morgan lays it out in the above quotes. I have my own critique of the provincial NDP in Manitoba, as of any government.

Government should help people, not attack them. In particular, those who need the most help should get the most help. Small children can understand this. The dark politics of neo-liberalism turns this upside down, so that up is down, black is white, the rich are the downtrodden, the poor are selfish, greed is good, and concern for others is contemptible.

I don't share such misanthropic views and never shall. And it really doesn't matter where I live when I say that, does it?

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Rob Ford and the ideology of "dark politics"

Government should help people, not attack them. In particular, those who need the most help should get the most help. Small children can understand this. The dark politics of neo-liberalism turns this upside down, so that up is down, black is white, the rich are the downtrodden, the poor are selfish, greed is good, and concern for others is contemptible.

I don't share such misanthropic views and never shall. And it really doesn't matter where I live when I say that, does it?

This is quite interesting. Are you saying the Liberal and even the NDP in Canada are nothing like the Democrats in the US? Because the US Democrats definitely still stand up for the poor, still want social programs, and want the rich to "pay their share". Is there no party in Canada doing the same? I've been out of Canada for 17 years, so I've really lost track of Canadian politics.

What you describe as "neo-liberalism" actually sounds like the Sean Hannity show on FOX News. Hannity is about nothing if he isn't about "the rich are the downtrodden". He constantly bemoans the taxes he has to pay as a resident of Long Island, NY. His ideology, like many others on the far right in the US, is the familiar refrain that the American entrepeneurial spirit would be reinvigorated if only excessive taxes on wealth were cut back dramatically, and the rising tide would lift all boats. The old "thousand points of light" thing that Dana Carvey used to make such good fun of. What is amazing is that all this goes against actual evidence. The greatest periods of job creation in the past few decades have all come during Democratic administrations, most notably Bill Clinton's time when federal budget surpluses were achieved and welfare rolls went down dramatically and the unemployment rate bottomed. The right gets away with ignoring this because so much of the American population is dumbed down to know only mantras and dogma. Facts can be thrown out. Facts don't get through to them. Even Mitt Romney's campaign team came right out and said they would not fight the election on facts (I can't remember the exact quote, but it got LOTS of airplay and it was the defining moment of the election).

Hannity has a technique he uses when left-wing guests on his show dare to present facts to him. He asks them a loaded question, and barely 3 or 4 words into their answer, he talks loudly over them, already criticizing the answer he knows is coming. The viewer never gets to hear the facts. Hannity is the most overbearing and obnoxious talk show host ever.

Extreme right-wing thinking seems pervasive in the US. I think many Americans see it as their calling card, the thing that makes them unique and American. For them it is un-American to want civil rights, to support unions and worker rights, and even ironically to be pro-Choice and / or to be for gay rights and gay marriage. I say ironically in those cases because abortion rights and gay rights / gay marriage is so obviously a matter of freedom and liberty, two of the most hallowed words in the far right vocabulary. But again: don't bother them with facts such as the DEFINITION of freedom and liberty (if there actually is one more involved than "nothin' left to lose")

And that explains why in the US there is a separate party called the Libertarian Party. This is a very far-right party, but only on matters POLITICAL. On social policy, Libertarians are ok with pro-Choice, ok with gay rights, ok with legalizing marijuana. They are the true extreme believers in freedom and liberty. They don't fit in with the Republicans, not even with the Tea Party, because their views aren't shaped by evangelist Christian religion a la Sarah Palin.

I am not advocating this party or its platform, I am only mentioning them as another entity in the US political landscape (and maybe there is a Canadian equivalent?).

But again, there is a significant countervailing force in the US to the right wing element. There's the Democratic party faithful themselves, plus the MSNBC network does its best against FOX News, and has talk show hosts that stand up for unions, for abortion rights, for social programs. Sadly, though, I think the horn of plenty is suffering from distinct signs of malnutrition. All these elements of a progressive civilization are at risk, because of the sheer weight of the American foreign debt. We were rescued once from total economic collapse, at a huge price tag. But the second shoe has yet to drop. And such would be right in line with history, which shows that everything goes in cycles, and all great civilizations come to an end.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Canadian Income Distribution

That company wasn't missed on taxes by the levels of government. I read an article where the mayor was quoted as saying they paid 1 million in taxes. They also used a lot of water and electricity. We all know what's happening to electricity prices in this province.

At least we have green energy and an increasingly unreliable power grid and system and plant closures because of the high cost of electricity. I predict that they will blame Harper for the decline in manufacturing. The federal tax cuts that will come before the next election will be eaten up by corresponding increases in Ontario.

I'm not defending the mayor. I'm defending the democratic process. Something people who advocate totalitarian governments don't seem to understand. We get little enough democracy in this country and then we get an unelected premier who looks to be scared silly to go to the people for her own mandate.

Why should she go to the people for her own mandate when the NDP which has a similar agenda to hers will support her. My suspicion is that even if an election were held today the Liberals would still be a minority government when the smoke cleared. The provincial Conservatives have their work cut out for them as it seems that they are more interested in shooting themselves in the foot rather than forming the next government.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Canadian Income Distribution

At least we have green energy and an increasingly unreliable power grid and system and plant closures because of the high cost of electricity. I predict that they will blame Harper for the decline in manufacturing. The federal tax cuts that will come before the next election will be eaten up by corresponding increases in Ontario.

I don't know who they will blame. I do know energy is a big input cost for companies. When the price of energy goes up the products often have to be repriced to take that into consideration. That depending on the amount of energy the company uses and its cost. If they have a fixed price contract with their customer a company often can't reprice. Even if they can an increase in the unit cost for the item could put them at a disadvantage to their competitors.

Also, I don't know if the town is charging them a disproportional amount of taxes to keep down the property taxes on the homeowners. Good way to get re-elected. Companies don't get to vote.

It sounds to me that if everyone really would like to keep the plant running, the workers, town and province will have to take some pain. I use Heinz Ketchup pretty much every day so I'm doing my part.

Why should she go to the people for her own mandate when the NDP which has a similar agenda to hers will support her. My suspicion is that even if an election were held today the Liberals would still be a minority government when the smoke cleared. The provincial Conservatives have their work cut out for them as it seems that they are more interested in shooting themselves in the foot rather than forming the next government.

You're probably right about an election. Maybe elections are out of date. To me it seems we have a democracy which few understand and even fewer would be willing to defend. People who don't understand when one person, no matter how objectionable, has his voter given position effectively taken away although he hasn't been charged or convicted of any offense it's an affront to our democratic system of electing officials.

I'd like to think the provincial government will lose votes in the next election because of this.

It looks to me like the provincial Conservatives need a majority to govern. I don't see them getting it.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Canadian Income Distribution

I don't know who they will blame. I do know energy is a big input cost for companies. When the price of energy goes up the products often have to be repriced to take that into consideration. That depending on the amount of energy the company uses and its cost. If they have a fixed price contract with their customer a company often can't reprice. Even if they can an increase in the unit cost for the item could put them at a disadvantage to their competitors.

Also, I don't know if the town is charging them a disproportional amount of taxes to keep down the property taxes on the homeowners. Good way to get re-elected. Companies don't get to vote.

I visited that plant back when I worked as a software specialist for a local supplier of automation software and hardware. It was huge. The parts that I visited seemed quite modern and they seemed to be spending money to keep it that way. I doubt that property taxes were as much of an issue as the fact that electricity costs in Ontario are out of whack with the U.S. There was a corresponding article yesterday or maybe today about them hiring 250 new workers to package Heinz ketchup in some U.S. community that had offered tax incentives to relocate some operations there. They lose over 700 workers and get some tax breaks and consolidate their operations. I am now less likely to buy Heinz ketchup.

It sounds to me that if everyone really would like to keep the plant running, the workers, town and province will have to take some pain. I use Heinz Ketchup pretty much every day so I'm doing my part.

That ship appears to have sailed.

You're probably right about an election. Maybe elections are out of date. To me it seems we have a democracy which few understand and even fewer would be willing to defend. People who don't understand when one person, no matter how objectionable, has his voter given position effectively taken away although he hasn't been charged or convicted of any offense it's an affront to our democratic system of electing officials.

I'd like to think the provincial government will lose votes in the next election because of this.

It looks to me like the provincial Conservatives need a majority to govern. I don't see them getting it.

I predict litigation in the Toronto situation which may lead to the courts determining that they don't have the authority to do what they are doing. Illegal drug use does not seem to be a hindering factor in seeking high office. Certainly there are rumours circulating about the current and previous President of the United States. A possible future Prime Minister in Justin Trudeau has openly admitted to using marijuana while in office. A lot of money has been spent by the Toronto Police to help bring Rob Ford down. It seems to me that there is a lot of room to cut budgets there especially if we became a bit more rational and stopped sending people to jail for things that the elites seem to admit to doing themselves. I found it interesting that no one answered Ford when he asked other members of City Council whether they denied that they themselves had indulged in illegal activities such as smoking marijuana. A variation on "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

Rather than spend the money we and the U.S. do to fund the war on drugs maybe a rational society would save prisons for real criminals. We could reduce police forces, prisons, judges, lawyers and the industry that supports current policies. It would probably be cheaper to supply and tax illegal drugs and offer treatment to those who wanted to get off of drugs rather than housing these people in prison or jail and clogging our courts up with people who are mostly just hurting themselves. You wouldn't even need to close the prisons. You could just insist on mandatory sentences for rapists, murderers and others convicted of violent criminal acts.

[Nigel Hanrahan]

The poor little rich guy

Rather than spend the money we and the U.S. do to fund the war on drugs maybe a rational society would save prisons for real criminals. We could reduce police forces, prisons, judges, lawyers and the industry that supports current policies. It would probably be cheaper to supply and tax illegal drugs and offer treatment to those who wanted to get off of drugs rather than housing these people in prison or jail and clogging our courts up with people who are mostly just hurting themselves. You wouldn't even need to close the prisons. You could just insist on mandatory sentences for rapists, murderers and others convicted of violent criminal acts.

This has been argued for a very long time. In the US, for example, a huge percentage of the over 2 million prisoners (by far, the highest in world history, both in percentage and just in sheer numbers) are in jail for misdemeanor drug possession charges. Some of them are even in jail for life for such charges. And it's much more likely that you'll be prosecuted on these petty charges if you're African-American or a visible minority. In Canada, the numbers for Native people are that they represent 4% of the general population and 23% of the prison population. Truly, a national disgrace for our country. Rob Ford, on the other hand, may spend no time in jail for what would mean for someone less connected a lengthy prison sentence.

I read somewhere that 1/3 of African-American males are going into jail, in jail, or in the process of coming out of jail (probation and such). It's a gigantic police state; furthermore, with private prisons it's done for profit and there are powerful interests who want to keep things just the way they are.

I understand the Conservatives have been trying to introduce private prisons in Canada as well. That's just what we need ... to be more like the USA. Yup.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Canadian Income Distribution

I don't know what he will do. If he'll bring it before the courts or not. Likely they are waiting to see how much his legal position of Mayor is restricted before going before the courts. I think this will start at the level of the Ontario Superior Court. Then it can be appealed upward from there. That's if he wants to fight it.

[Nigel Hanrahan]

Being rich can make up for a multitude of sins

I don't know what he will do. If he'll bring it before the courts or not. Likely they are waiting to see how much his legal position of Mayor is restricted before going before the courts. I think this will start at the level of the Ontario Superior Court. Then it can be appealed upward from there. That's if he wants to fight it.

Well, Ford will have a great start. He's got the best legal defense money can buy in George Rust-D’Eye, the "dean of municipal law in Ontario". Rust-D'Eye, who has deep knowledge of Ontario municipal procedures, is known for "integrity, honesty, and professionalism" ... everything that Rob Ford lacks.

Being rich can make up for a multitude of sins, it seems.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Being rich can make up for a multitude of sins

Being rich can make up for a multitude of sins, it seems.

Not if you run for Parliament with the "wrong" political party in St. James.

You're shooting me ideological BS. I'm looking at the democratic process.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Being rich can make up for a multitude of sins

Well, Ford will have a great start. He's got the best legal defense money can buy in George Rust-D’Eye, the "dean of municipal law in Ontario". Rust-D'Eye, who has deep knowledge of Ontario municipal procedures, is known for "integrity, honesty, and professionalism" ... everything that Rob Ford lacks.

Being rich can make up for a multitude of sins, it seems.

I don't think that characterizing it as a defense is quite correct as in all likelihood it is Rob Ford and his legal team who will be suing. The defense will be the municipal politicians on city council and by extension, the Toronto taxpayers.

[Nigel Hanrahan]

Ford's legal team

I don't think that characterizing it as a defense is quite correct as in all likelihood it is Rob Ford and his legal team who will be suing. The defense will be the municipal politicians on city council and by extension, the Toronto taxpayers.

OK, yes, I was mixing up matters relating to possible criminal charges against Ford with his threatened plans to sue Toronto City Council. My bad.

Mind you, both could be going on at the same time. I guess if Ford was convicted of criminal charges, then the whole thing would be moot, wouldn't it, as a criminal conviction would be considered straightforward legal grounds to relieve him of his duties as Mayor of Toronto.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Canadian Income Distribution

That ship appears to have sailed.

I thought there was a 90 day period to try to find a remedy for the problem. Has the time passed or did I get that wrong.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Canadian Income Distribution

I thought there was a 90 day period to try to find a remedy for the problem. Has the time passed or did I get that wrong.

If we are talking about the Heinz plant, it seems from the local news coverage that it is a done deal. They are looking at what to do with the site.