Dubov vs Shirov (in December)

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  • Dubov vs Shirov (in December)

    There will be a friendly 6-games match D.Dubov vs A.Shirov with a long time control in December in Moscow.
    The interesting thing is that if the game ends in draw, the players will have to play 2 blitz (5m+3s) games. The blitz results will not count towards the match result.

    as seen on crestbook.com

  • #2
    Re: Dubov vs Shirov (in December)

    Sounds like a good idea. I really despise the armaggedon stuff as a way of determining a winner, especially in high profile tournament or national/world championship. Armageddon has almost nothing to do with chess. For one thing, the rules are changed (black wins if he draws).

    Take example on tennis. They play on until a clear winner emerges. But at the end, it's a matter of winning only one play, not a set or match. In chess, after a draw at slow time control, it could be that you play 2 games of rapid chess (say 10m+5s) until a guy scores 1.5 or 2 out of 2. It wouldn't last very long anyway.

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    • #3
      Re: Dubov vs Shirov (in December)

      Originally posted by Mathieu Cloutier View Post
      Sounds like a good idea. I really despise the armaggedon stuff as a way of determining a winner, especially in high profile tournament or national/world championship. Armageddon has almost nothing to do with chess. For one thing, the rules are changed (black wins if he draws).

      Take example on tennis. They play on until a clear winner emerges. But at the end, it's a matter of winning only one play, not a set or match. In chess, after a draw at slow time control, it could be that you play 2 games of rapid chess (say 10m+5s) until a guy scores 1.5 or 2 out of 2. It wouldn't last very long anyway.
      If they're going to have a playoff, I like the counter intuitive idea of playing it before the main match. The point is that the loser will be much more inclined to go all out to win the match if a tie in the main match means that they will lose because of the result in the tiebreak. Of course, you could also argue that the winner of the tiebreak will be much more inclined to draw, but it takes two to do this and the loser will generally be very adverse to a drawn match since it is the same as a loss.

      Compare this to the traditional method of playing tiebreaks, in which there are many players who will draw with minimal effort in the long games (IE Grischuk) and invest their efforts in the tiebreaks. I think this is terrible from a competitive standpoint, and also in terms of the chess obviously the long games are generally much higher quality than an Armageddon blitz play off. Unfortunately the powers that be are probably way too conservative to adopt this at the highest levels, although I think it just makes more sense if you are going to have tiebreaks. Obviously horrendous matches like Gelfand-Anand would be completely different if they played the tiebreaks first...

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      • #4
        Re: Dubov vs Shirov (in December)

        Originally posted by Nicolas Haynes View Post
        If they're going to have a playoff, I like the counter intuitive idea of playing it before the main match. The point is that the loser will be much more inclined to go all out to win the match if a tie in the main match means that they will lose because of the result in the tiebreak. Of course, you could also argue that the winner of the tiebreak will be much more inclined to draw, but it takes two to do this and the loser will generally be very adverse to a drawn match since it is the same as a loss.
        That's a good point. Something we need to consider and experiment on. You either have two players that may be inclined to play for the win. Or you have one guy who needs to play for the win and one guy who necessarily plays for the draw.

        The thing is, even with the tiebreak before the game, the winner of the tiebreak might be inclined to play for the win if only for rating points. But he'll be careful, that's for sure.

        The other thing would be to make the tiebreak kind of a hassle to play (right after the game, slightly longer than blitz etc.). Then the player with an edge has an incentive to go for the win in the classical game.

        And I'm taking this back to tennis. The players cannot say 'draw' after a long fought match that stands at 6-4, 4-6 and then 5-5. They have to go on.

        In chess, it's pointless to do that with individual games. Some games will inevitably end in a draw and there's no point in forcing the players to go on. I'd even agree that the Sofia rule is, to a certain extent, a lack of respect towards the top players. But you could make them play a tie-break in the form of blitz or rapid.

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