thread for Robert and Vlad

[Robert Hamilton]

This is my first post on chess talk in over five years and I've rarely visited the site to read the threads.

I am, to my knowledge, the only authorized spokesperson on behalf of the Kasparov campaign in Canada.

In spite of several attempts to speak with Vlad about the campaign I have yet to have an opportunity to do so. Vlad was quoted in the Globe and Mail as saying that nobody from the Kasparov campaign had even e-mailed him which was incorrect. Once it was pointed out to Vlad that I had done so on several occasions he responded by saying he wasn't sure whether it arrived in his chess.ca address, which as President is his published address. In defence of not communicating with me Vlad also said that were I really the spokesperson Hal would have told him so if Hal knew it. If Hal didn't tell him that fact it wasn't because Hal didn't know it. Hal knows well that I was the spokesperson for the Karpov campaign last time and as Hal and I discussed, I was the spokesperson for the Kasparov campaign this time. That Vlad didn't know it is an error in his responsibility as President (albeit not overly serious), and a sign of poor communication from Hal to him.

In response to the above points, Vlad cited, among other reasons for us not yet to have spoken that he was too busy. Upon return to this site after years absence I notice he wasn't to busy to be constantly reading threads and posting here.

We now have an inflammatory situation where many well intentioned and long time supporters of Canadian chess are fighting with one another. Camp Kasparov's contention is that the CFC never even listened to them...which is completely correct. In the meantime the FIDE position has been well articulated by Hal and has influenced the executive without Kasparov's case ever being officially heard. This doesn't seem fair.

Arguments on this site have degenerated into colossal insults by both parties which have been completely non-productive. If I were Vlad I'd be upset at some of the swings taken at him. If I were Sid I'd be infuriated by the fact that as the biggest sponsor of chess in Canadian history the CFC's position is that he doesn't have an official voice in the Kasparov campaign, which, while technically correct, is ludicrous.

There's just a little too much ego occurring on both sides.

I propose the following solution.

I would like to debate Vlad, in open, on this board, where everyone can see what's being said about who the CFC should vote for. I consider it a moderate and reasonable request and think that what transpires will allow the both sides to give their views in a civilized way.

Regards,

Robert Hamilton

[Nigel Hanrahan]

The horse has left the barn or the caravan has moved on.

I would like to debate Vlad, in open, on this board, where everyone can see what's being said about who the CFC should vote for. I consider it a moderate and reasonable request and think that what transpires will allow the both sides to give their views in a civilized way.

Interesting. Good luck with that. I mean that. If it comes to it, I will assist here as best I can. (takes Moderator hat off)

...............................................................

There's been a flurry of related threads, push polls and what-have-you, at a furious pace here on the Discussion Board. All from the Kasparov side, I might add. Of course, since this is a rare visit, you have nothing to do with that.

However, the following quotation and the debate here leads me to believe that that horse has left the barn. Why would Vlad agree to such a demand? Your side lost and you want a re-match? I know what I'd say.

As one person put it ...

the decision took months to make. The CFC conducted a poll of both Executive members and Governors and then announced their support for the incumbent President.

[Adam Cormier]

Re: Kasparov Campaign

Finally some one with my views that seems to have better communication skills and is more sophisticated.

I think this debate would be a great idea, considering how very close the final vote was, and since at least by chesstalk polls the average Canadian chess player mostly supports Kasparov over Kirsan (comparing the numbers of votes for each).

[Paul Bonham]

Re: The horse has left the barn or the caravan has moved on.

Why would Vlad agree to such a demand? Your side lost and you want a re-match?

Wow.... could you be more dense? Vlad had better agree to this request (which I note you contemptuously call a 'demand', typical of you).

For one reason: because what Robert Hamilton has just posted is INCENDIARY!

Many Vlad supporters could change their minds just based on what Robert has exposed here, assuming they accept Robert's post as factual.

It is now obvious that Vlad never made any effort whatsoever to communicate with the Kasparov side. On top of this, much to my disappointment, Hal Bond seems implicated in all of this in a very serious manner, one that could conceivably see him lose his working relationship with FIDE. Hal's reply to Sasha Starr on another thread

http://www.chesstalk.info/forum/show...4-Dear-Mr-Bond

confesses that he (Hal) 'weighed in' on the FIDE election, which would be as Sasha pointed out an illegal or at least unethical action due to his conflict of interest. That is one thing: now we also hear that Hal failed to communicate to Vlad about Robert Hamilton's status as Kasparov spokesperson. I would say Hal Bond is in serious doo doo, and Vlad had better come to his aid immediately. In fact, if Vlad had any principals, he would sacrifice himself to save Hal, because it appears that Hal may have acted as he did not knowing how wrong it was.

So now we have Vlad AND Hal both looking very sinister in this whole affair. It appears that Kirsan was to be the endorsement all along, there was never to be any consideration of Kasparov, and it would all be papered over to make it APPEAR like Vlad and the Executive gave both sides fair play.

I don't think the Kasparov side seems lost to me at all. The slope is getting more and more slippery for Vlad and his cohorts on the Executive.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Kasparov Campaign

This is my first post on chess talk in over five years and I've rarely visited the site to read the threads.

I am, to my knowledge, the only authorized spokesperson on behalf of the Kasparov campaign in Canada.

In spite of several attempts to speak with Vlad about the campaign I have yet to have an opportunity to do so. Vlad was quoted in the Globe and Mail as saying that nobody from the Kasparov campaign had even e-mailed him which was incorrect.

I did not receive confirmation until recently that you were part of the campaign from you and Michael K. I was incredulous in fact that all of these contacts and discussions apparently were with non sanctioned people from my reading of certain tweets by Kasparov and his campaign people.

Once it was pointed out to Vlad that I had done so on several occasions he responded by saying he wasn't sure whether it arrived in his chess.ca address, which as President is his published address.

.
I responded on June 22nd from my working email and didn't see anything from you until July 1st. I am rolling into fifty or more emails a day that I need to respond to at length and in addition I have a life external to chess and the CFC. I have friends trying to make appointments to see me. I am not opposed to speaking to you under the terms discussed in our email but I have been busy.

In defence of not communicating with me Vlad also said that were I really the spokesperson Hal would have told him so if Hal knew it.

I don't recall saying that. Hal did tell me that you were the spokesman. Its just that statements from Kasparov and his people seemed to deny that.

In fact it was claimed at various times that I was a liar because ridiculous things that were said and done by people who apparently are connected to the Kasparov campaign once again - or not.

If Hal didn't tell him that fact it wasn't because Hal didn't know it. Hal knows well that I was the spokesperson for the Karpov campaign last time and as Hal and I discussed, I was the spokesperson for the Kasparov campaign this time. That Vlad didn't know it is an error in his responsibility as President (albeit not overly serious), and a sign of poor communication from Hal to him.

In response to the above points, Vlad cited, among other reasons for us not yet to have spoken that he was too busy. Upon return to this site after years absence I notice he wasn't to busy to be constantly reading threads and posting here.

We now have an inflammatory situation where many well intentioned and long time supporters of Canadian chess are fighting with one another. Camp Kasparov's contention is that the CFC never even listened to them...which is completely correct. In the meantime the FIDE position has been well articulated by Hal and has influenced the executive without Kasparov's case ever being officially heard. This doesn't seem fair.

We were about to talk to Michael K. when the pro-Kasparov governors derailed that by asserting their authority to make the decision. That had to be sorted out and then we went on that wild ride.

Arguments on this site have degenerated into colossal insults by both parties which have been completely non-productive. If I were Vlad I'd be upset at some of the swings taken at him. If I were Sid I'd be infuriated by the fact that as the biggest sponsor of chess in Canadian history the CFC's position is that he doesn't have an official voice in the Kasparov campaign, which, while technically correct, is ludicrous.

I thought it was ludicrous as well and yet Kasparov and Greenwald or whatever his name is were making statements to that effect.

There's just a little too much ego occurring on both sides.

I propose the following solution.

I would like to debate Vlad, in open, on this board, where everyone can see what's being said about who the CFC should vote for. I consider it a moderate and reasonable request and think that what transpires will allow the both sides to give their views in a civilized way.

Regards,

Robert Hamilton

Seems reasonable to me.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Kasparov Campaign

That's the election issue. The vote will decide in a few days.

[Nigel Hanrahan]

abuse deserves a reply

Wow.... could you be more dense?

Abuse from you again. Why aren't I surprised?

In any case, you whole tirade is moot. Read Vlad's reply.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: The horse has left the barn or the caravan has moved on.

Wow.... could you be more dense? Vlad had better agree to this request (which I note you contemptuously call a 'demand', typical of you).

The adults are talking now. Its time for the children to go to bed.

For one reason: because what Robert Hamilton has just posted is INCENDIARY!

Many Vlad supporters could change their minds just based on what Robert has exposed here, assuming they accept Robert's post as factual.

It is now obvious that Vlad never made any effort whatsoever to communicate with the Kasparov side.

I considered my multiple conversations with Ruth Haring USCF president communication with the Kasparov side and the only communication with a sensible person so far from the Kasparov side.


blah blah blah blah

[Paul Bonham]

Re: The horse has left the barn or the caravan has moved on.

The adults are talking now. Its time for the children to go to bed.




I considered my multiple conversations with Ruth Haring USCF president communication with the Kasparov side and the only communication with a sensible person so far from the Kasparov side.


blah blah blah blah

Looks like the adults can learn a thing or two from the children.

In what sense could Ruth Haring, USCF President, ever be considered a spokesperson for the Kasparov side? Was she appointed Kasparov's spokesperson to Canada?

It's quite obvious Vlad that you didn't do any due diligence, which seems to be a recurring theme with you. You see something on the internet that meshes with your world view, and you take it as gospel. Again and again in these threads, this has come up. Emails.... tweets.... as long as it matches Vlad's world view, it's gold, Jerry, gold! (that's a Seinfeld reference if you're wondering)

You never considered Kasparov, you were all Kirsan all the way. You have outright lied in this threads, as Sid has alleged. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

Sasha is so far silent as to what he is going to do with these discoveries about Hal Bond. But it should be perfectly within Sasha's power to lodge a formal complaint to FIDE about Hal's conduct in this business, and Hal has publicly admitted to one wrongdoing and is now implicated in another. I imagine it's a tough decision for Sasha, as Hal unlike you has a certain air of integrity about him and appears to have just made perhaps inadvertant bad choices. You have no such air of integrity and 'bad choices' is your middle name.

[Robert Hamilton]

Re: Kasparov Campaign

Hi Vlad,

Thanks for your response. I'll not debate the points you raise above other than to say I stand by everything I said.

In terms of a debate....thank you for agreeing... I think we can do so civilly and that it would be a productive process.

I propose that we do so quickly since time is of essence. If it's okay by you I'd like to ask the first question. Once you answer it I will respond and you can ask the second, which I will answer first and so on.

My first question is "In terms of the FIDE election how much emphasis do you feel should be placed on what's good for Canada vs what's good for international chess"?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

Robert

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Kasparov Campaign

Hi Vlad,

Thanks for your response. I'll not debate the points you raise above other than to say I stand by everything I said.

In terms of a debate....thank you for agreeing... I think we can do so civilly and that it would be a productive process.

I propose that we do so quickly since time is of essence. If it's okay by you I'd like to ask the first question. Once you answer it I will respond and you can ask the second, which I will answer first and so on.

My first question is "In terms of the FIDE election how much emphasis do you feel should be placed on what's good for Canada vs what's good for international chess"?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

Robert

My first priority is what is good for Canada and Canadian chess players. I do have to bear in mind that we also have to be concerned with what is good for international chess as we do exist in the larger context of international chess. I would put the weighting at 70% what's good for Canada and 30% what's good for international chess assuming that there is a conflict between these two objectives.

[Robert Hamilton]

Re: Kasparov Campaign

Hi Vlad,

I'm not going to ascribe a percentage to the impact of the FIDE leadership on chess in Canada - it varies greatly based on circumstances. As you know, when Fischer played Spassky many federations experienced and explosive 500% growth rate which does show what is possible. Under Kirsan there has been almost no growth attributable to FIDE leadership.

When we did the World Chess Festival in Saint John we had 750 accredited international journalists including AP, Rueters, TASS, Sports Illustrated, the London Times, New York Times etc. Currently top FIDE events have almost no coverage and most are played in Khanty Mansiysk with no spectators present.

Garry Kasparov has the cache to attract substantial international sponsorship to chess and get the game back in the spotlight. He has also made it a personal mission to promote scholastic chess and currently resides a few hundred miles from the Canadian border.

On the domestic scene voting for Kirsan means losing our largest patron of all time. I'll not itemize everything he's done other than to say he's supported several Olympiad Teams, Canadian Championships and even provided employment for several of Canada's top players including IM Teplitsky, IM Livshitts and GM Charbonneau.

I'm given to understand the FIDE has made an undisclosed promise to the CFC if they vote for Kirsan. The value of the promise is drastically less than what Sid has already given.

From both an international, and domestic perspective I consider the upside for the CFC to be much better by voting Kasparov.

Please send any comments you have and send your first question.

Thanks, Vlad for taking the time to respond.

Robert

[Garland Best]

Re: Kasparov Campaign

This is a request to Nigel. Can we have this thread restricted to only Robert and Vlad? This would avoid the thread being derailed by others. Any comments regarding this debate by others can be posted in a different thread. Thank you.

[Ken Craft]

Re: Kasparov Campaign

What Caissa given right do they have to a thread that they can post in exclusively on Chesstalk?

[Garland Best]

Re: Kasparov Campaign

Robert has proposed to debate Vlad on Chesstalk. Vlad has accepted. For the sake of clarity, I would like to see the thread contain only that debate. In the same manner, if 2 persons debate on televison, one does not expect to hear members from the audience to interupt.