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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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J.Brown, you are ignoring Aurora Opens :) What's the matter? You don't like prize funds (example for the Summer: http://summeropen-2014.aurorachessclub.ca/prize-fund ) We don't give discounts for age or sex. Only for accomplishments (free entry fee to IM/GM) and for relationship to the Aurora club (what makes a club fee almost free.
After Summer ratings where calculated I did not see big jumps, or that players rose to a different section. Thus, while the young player strength lags to his rating, it is not a big difference. I think that the cure is more tournaments and more players activity. For a city like Toronto to have only several weekend opens is [censored LOL]
As I understand it, not that many tournaments that are organized in Canada have a "junior only" or "best junior" prize. Yes in many tournaments juniors and seniors have a discounted entry fee. This kind of thing encourages junior participation significantly and allows a small break for senior citizens, as is customary with many aspects of society (ie bus fare). Many juniors also play in many events and their (parents') bills add up quickly. After that everyone plays for the same prizes.
Lets imagine someone decides to organize a tournament which includes prizes based on age group. Lets say Juniors (under 18), Seniors (65 ) and Adults (18-64). Within the juniors category, competition is already completely lopsided as a 2-3 year difference is crucial. In the middle group, how would one compare the 'style of play' or advantages vs disadvantages, of a 20 year old vs a 60 year old? Maybe in a Canadian Open type turnout (300 people) it may be possible to separate age groups for prize purposes. For example 2 year gaps for juniors, 10 year gaps for adults, not sure how it would work for seniors. Someone would have to make a survey on everyone's age. I personally don't think this is a feasible idea.
Chess is chess. We can choose to play the board or the opponent. We can definitely discuss stereotypes based on age. IE: Juniors play faster, more tactically, are usually heavier on the opening theory. Since when are those the only possible advantages? Older players then in contrast may have a better positional sense, more patience (and hopefully less likely to make a mistake in rushing a position), better judgement of critical moments. Juniors have disadvantages too! I imagine many get super bored by the 4th hour of a game. Some chess tournaments run for 12 hours a day. Even juniors will be tired by then! Some people argue they need to sleep more, and weekend tournaments are not a cakewalk for that. I think the sad reality for us adults is very simple... juniors dedicate a lot of time to chess. Practicing, studying, updating their database knowledge, getting coaching, blitzing with friends at lunch hour or after finishing their homework, etc etc... Adults don't have the time for that (usually). How / why should we be able to compete? If a junior with the same rating as mine is doing all these things and I am not... he's totally expected to win!
There are definitely certain things we can try to do to steer the game into our advantage when playing juniors. To avoid a ton of theory, we can play stale openings or openings where no moves are forced. There are also many openings that are poor on tactical options. But if we're doing it because we're lazy and don't know this strategy that well, we may lose anyway later in the game.
You mentioned above:
"The one thing you have forgotten is that a tournament relies on players. Players generate money for prize funds and expenses."
I get the impression you're addressing this to me as an organizer. I haven't forgotten. Players make tournaments happen, not organizers, arbiters or TDs. That does not mean that every request can be accommodated. Organizers have to balance the players' interests, requests and demands with what is workable practically and financially.
"So unless the younger ( TD's to be )start joining the older ones to learn the ropes, I think tournament chess will slowly die out."
There is a ton for younger organizers to learn from the older guard, no doubt. The established organizers pave the floor for new ones, train them, etc... but times are also changing and people need to adapt and evolve. 30 years ago (from what I hear) there were nearly no juniors in tournament chess. Today they are the bread and butter of tournament chess. Today children start playing chess at a young age and thrown in the deep end right away. Organizers (for adult tournaments) are now having to consider junior-only-events in the calendar if they don't want their own tournaments to suffer considerably in numbers.
Decline in adult chess seems to be quite justified given the approach that many adults take. Younger adults have too many things going on in life, and often stop or significantly slow down their chess involvement. Returning adults (after a long absence) are often completely unprepared to compete the way they once did. They get their teeth kicked 4 out of 5 games in a weekend by someone half their age and struggle to accept this new reality. Many simply go on another long absence. Some fight on and after a few months / tournaments regain their strength after doing the work it takes to even maintain a specific level of play. Today there are also other options, such as the Internet. Adults are probably more likely to have to resort to this option as their 'chess fix' as weekend tournaments are too time demanding. Kids usually do both!
But there's hope! Whereas weekend tournaments may have declining numbers of older players (percentage wise), clubs still seem to be an option (once a week) where many adults / seniors still play. Juniors will also always be there because they just can't get enough. I don't know how the rest of the country is doing, but the Toronto Senior is in good health, and Kitchener has been putting on more and more successful seniors-only tournaments. The scene looked bleaker about 10 years ago in this department.
As I understand it, not that many tournaments that are organized in Canada have a "junior only" or "best junior" prize. Yes in many tournaments juniors and seniors have a discounted entry fee. This kind of thing encourages junior participation significantly and allows a small break for senior citizens, as is customary with many aspects of society (ie bus fare). Many juniors also play in many events and their (parents') bills add up quickly. After that everyone plays for the same prizes.
Lets imagine someone decides to organize a tournament which includes prizes based on age group. Lets say Juniors (under 18), Seniors (65 ) and Adults (18-64). Within the juniors category, competition is already completely lopsided as a 2-3 year difference is crucial. In the middle group, how would one compare the 'style of play' or advantages vs disadvantages, of a 20 year old vs a 60 year old? Maybe in a Canadian Open type turnout (300 people) it may be possible to separate age groups for prize purposes. For example 2 year gaps for juniors, 10 year gaps for adults, not sure how it would work for seniors. Someone would have to make a survey on everyone's age. I personally don't think this is a feasible idea.
Chess is chess. We can choose to play the board or the opponent. We can definitely discuss stereotypes based on age. IE: Juniors play faster, more tactically, are usually heavier on the opening theory. Since when are those the only possible advantages? Older players then in contrast may have a better positional sense, more patience (and hopefully less likely to make a mistake in rushing a position), better judgement of critical moments. Juniors have disadvantages too! I imagine many get super bored by the 4th hour of a game. Some chess tournaments run for 12 hours a day. Even juniors will be tired by then! Some people argue they need to sleep more, and weekend tournaments are not a cakewalk for that. I think the sad reality for us adults is very simple... juniors dedicate a lot of time to chess. Practicing, studying, updating their database knowledge, getting coaching, blitzing with friends at lunch hour or after finishing their homework, etc etc... Adults don't have the time for that (usually). How / why should we be able to compete? If a junior with the same rating as mine is doing all these things and I am not... he's totally expected to win!
There are definitely certain things we can try to do to steer the game into our advantage when playing juniors. To avoid a ton of theory, we can play stale openings or openings where no moves are forced. There are also many openings that are poor on tactical options. But if we're doing it because we're lazy and don't know this strategy that well, we may lose anyway later in the game.
You mentioned above:
"The one thing you have forgotten is that a tournament relies on players. Players generate money for prize funds and expenses."
I get the impression you're addressing this to me as an organizer. I haven't forgotten. Players make tournaments happen, not organizers, arbiters or TDs. That does not mean that every request can be accommodated. Organizers have to balance the players' interests, requests and demands with what is workable practically and financially.
"So unless the younger ( TD's to be )start joining the older ones to learn the ropes, I think tournament chess will slowly die out."
There is a ton for younger organizers to learn from the older guard, no doubt. The established organizers pave the floor for new ones, train them, etc... but times are also changing and people need to adapt and evolve. 30 years ago (from what I hear) there were nearly no juniors in tournament chess. Today they are the bread and butter of tournament chess. Today children start playing chess at a young age and thrown in the deep end right away. Organizers (for adult tournaments) are now having to consider junior-only-events in the calendar if they don't want their own tournaments to suffer considerably in numbers.
Decline in adult chess seems to be quite justified given the approach that many adults take. Younger adults have too many things going on in life, and often stop or significantly slow down their chess involvement. Returning adults (after a long absence) are often completely unprepared to compete the way they once did. They get their teeth kicked 4 out of 5 games in a weekend by someone half their age and struggle to accept this new reality. Many simply go on another long absence. Some fight on and after a few months / tournaments regain their strength after doing the work it takes to even maintain a specific level of play. Today there are also other options, such as the Internet. Adults are probably more likely to have to resort to this option as their 'chess fix' as weekend tournaments are too time demanding. Kids usually do both!
But there's hope! Whereas weekend tournaments may have declining numbers of older players (percentage wise), clubs still seem to be an option (once a week) where many adults / seniors still play. Juniors will also always be there because they just can't get enough. I don't know how the rest of the country is doing, but the Toronto Senior is in good health, and Kitchener has been putting on more and more successful seniors-only tournaments. The scene looked bleaker about 10 years ago in this department.
Alex F.
Alex,
You seem to be one of the rare players who has improved a lot as an adult.
J.Brown, you are ignoring Aurora Opens :) What's the matter? You don't like prize funds (example for the Summer: http://summeropen-2014.aurorachessclub.ca/prize-fund ) We don't give discounts for age or sex. Only for accomplishments (free entry fee to IM/GM) and for relationship to the Aurora club (what makes a club fee almost free.
After Summer ratings where calculated I did not see big jumps, or that players rose to a different section. Thus, while the young player strength lags to his rating, it is not a big difference. I think that the cure is more tournaments and more players activity. For a city like Toronto to have only several weekend opens is [censored LOL]
Hello Egidijus;
So far your Aurora tournaments have been on weekends that I work. Also for me to get to Aurora on public transit from Brampton would be a nightmare ( I don't drive). Cost of a hotel maybe cheaper than Toronto but that is another cost that could become an addition. I like Toronto based tournaments they are easy to get to from Brampton. I usually key in on the Best tournaments Labour Day , Hart House events and Kitchener Amateur Open any others also interfere with my work schedules as I stated above I have two jobs so that limits my days I can play. Maybe when I'm retired I can run the circuit.
Hi Alex;
I guess then tournaments from now on are to encourage Junior participation and let the other chess players be forgotten.
I have discovered that all will be well once we have all retired and can reminisce "What a Great Game Tournament Chess Was"
Last edited by John Brown; Thursday, 7th August, 2014, 06:24 AM.
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