Congrats to NON PRIZE WINNERS and their parents in WYCC

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  • Congrats to NON PRIZE WINNERS and their parents in WYCC

    With all the hoopla surrounding the success of Qiyu Zhou at the WYCC, there is a whole other group that has so far been ignored here on ChessTalk. I would have expected the CFC President to have done this, but since he hasn't (probably because like everyone else, his priorities lie with the winners), I'll do it for him:

    Congratulations to all the Canadian kids who played in the WYCC in Durban, South Africa and did NOT win medals nor prizes, and to their parents. Your initiative, effort and perseverance should be honored irregardless of the results. By congratulating all of you on equal terms with those who did win prizes, we show you that we value you and your efforts equally in the true spirit of competition, and that your results do not diminish you in any way in our view. Good luck and continue to work hard and improve in all your future endeavours, both within chess and beyond chess.

    I do this because these are children still in their formative years. It's hard enough to cope with losing without having to see a teammate getting so much attention for winning. Everyone who signed on to the congratulations of Qiyu should sign on to this as well.

    And you should reflect on this also: Qiyu's success is not reflective of Canada or of the Canadian government (lol, let's notify the Prime Minister!). It is reflective on her personal support group (family) and her own character and willingness to persevere in the face of trials and tribulations (past failures). This is rare in chess, because chess is a pure skill game and failure can undermine the psyche in young children. Qiyu overcame that, to her credit, but you should reflect on the many, many more who do NOT overcome that and not only leave chess, but leave with their psyche and feeling of self-worth damaged. Chess is unique among games in this respect: it is highly dangerous to the ego, particularly for young children and particularly when so much emphasis is put on winning. Some can handle failure and move on to other endeavors, but some cannot without help and support. This is the downside of the CFC emphasis on winning and the new Drkulec-inspired emphasis on children. You hear about all the successes, but you don't hear about the failures and what they can lead to.

    On a side note, the Wordpress blog that John Upper provided a link to,
    http://qiyuzhou.wordpress.com/
    has this interesting bit written by her mother:

    "She complained that chess is not as fun as before. When she was young, she thought that chess was such an easy and fun game, but not now. I mentioned that she complained that if she knew that playing chess needs to memorize and study so many openings, she would not have started at the very beginning."

    Exactly what I've been posting for a few years now about standard chess: too much memorization. With this new emphasis on children in the CFC business model, there will be a fallout when they reach the age at which they realize what's really involved in chess mastery: almost no creativity and inspiration, and rote memorization of openings sometimes beyond 20 moves, not to mention endgames. And draws.... lots of draws!

    Kevin Pacey has been disagreeing that this opening memorization aspect is so strong. Kevin, there it is right from Qiyu Zhou herself. Too much memorization! I'm sure Qiyu's WYCC win will rejunevate her interest, but what about the many others?

    And will the CFC or even FIDE itself perhaps adapt and start offering chess960 to get rid of some of the memorization? Not on your life. Status quo, baby!
    Only the rushing is heard...
    Onward flies the bird.

  • #2
    Re: Congrats to NON PRIZE WINNERS and their parents in WYCC

    Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post


    "She complained that chess is not as fun as before. When she was young, she thought that chess was such an easy and fun game, but not now. I mentioned that she complained that if she knew that playing chess needs to memorize and study so many openings, she would not have started at the very beginning."

    Exactly what I've been posting for a few years now about standard chess: too much memorization. With this new emphasis on children in the CFC business model, there will be a fallout when they reach the age at which they realize what's really involved in chess mastery: almost no creativity and inspiration, and rote memorization of openings sometimes beyond 20 moves, not to mention endgames. And draws.... lots of draws!

    Kevin Pacey has been disagreeing that this opening memorization aspect is so strong. Kevin, there it is right from Qiyu Zhou herself. Too much memorization! I'm sure Qiyu's WYCC win will rejunevate her interest, but what about the many others?

    And will the CFC or even FIDE itself perhaps adapt and start offering chess960 to get rid of some of the memorization? Not on your life. Status quo, baby!
    Paul, I don't know what you're talking about. Nothing is easy at an elite level. Hockey, football, science, gymnastics... and chess. If you want to be among the best, there's a price to pay. Lots of hours of hard work. Sometimes catastrophic injuries (for instance, crashing in cycling or skiing). A broken body is not fun. Nor is it necessarily fun to practice all the time when your friends are just hanging out.

    Chess960 or whatever variant of chess, if it develops an elite level, it will mean lots of work by those who want to be best.

    Hockey, soccer, etc. are all fun for kids at a recreational level. And some of those kids pursue those games/sports into adulthood. But being elite is tough work. There's no way around it. I play chess at a recreational level. I don't work hard at it but I really enjoy it. But I'm not any good. Assuming that I have any talent (I actually doubt it), getting good would mean hard work.

    BTW - I congratulate all those who represented Canada at the WYCC. My chess club, the Scarborough Chess Club, awards all SCC club members who are part of Team Canada a certificate, one year of club membership and one year of CFC membership for their accomplishment. We are always proud of our club members who make it to the WYCC. We are particularly delighted when one of them excels like Harmony Zhu did last year. But every SCC member who is at the WYCC is honoured equally by our club.
    Last edited by Steve Karpik; Monday, 29th September, 2014, 04:05 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: Congrats to NON PRIZE WINNERS and their parents in WYCC

      While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment of congratulating ALL of the Canadian WYCC members, perhaps next time you could simply do so, rather than take the opportunity to also take a swipe at the CFC President and chess in general. It cheapens the message.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Congrats to NON PRIZE WINNERS and their parents in WYCC

        Originally posted by Garland Best View Post
        While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment of congratulating ALL of the Canadian WYCC members, perhaps next time you could simply do so, rather than take the opportunity to also take a swipe at the CFC President and chess in general. It cheapens the message.
        Actually I find it rather amusing seeing Paul try to make a sow's ear of a silk purse after his unrelenting criticism of our interest in youth chess. I sent the parents and coaches the following email earlier today:

        Subject: Congratulations to everyone‏
        From: Vladimir Drkulec 12:34 PM

        Congratulations to everyone on another successful WYCC. I would like to congratulate Qiyu Zhou on becoming world chess champion. It couldn't have happened to a nicer young lady.

        Now your only task is to come home safely and take what you learned in Durban to help you continue your journey towards chess mastery. Seeing all of the sacrifices that you the parents all make for your kids to help them make it to these tournaments where they can test themselves against the world's best is one of the high points of being the president of the CFC.

        Thank you all for making this possible.

        Vlad
        Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Monday, 29th September, 2014, 05:24 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Congrats to NON PRIZE WINNERS and their parents in WYCC

          Originally posted by Steve Karpik View Post
          Paul, I don't know what you're talking about. Nothing is easy at an elite level. Hockey, football, science, gymnastics....
          Steve, no dispute on your points about hard work being needed to excel in all these activities.

          Hard work is one thing: rote memorization is another. The problem with chess, unique from the other activities, is that the hard work involved takes the fun and creativity out of the activity.

          And again, it's one thing if a player is memorizing key strategic concepts such as develop pawns before pieces. But what they are increasingly memorizing is long opening lines. I remember one posting by Wayne Komer about some elite event, and a GM was interviewed and said that he lost because he couldn't remember the correct pawn move from the line he had studied on his computer that morning, and he chose the wrong pawn move! Even at that level, the GM couldn't actually think through the situation, he had to guess because he couldn't remember. Very sad.
          Only the rushing is heard...
          Onward flies the bird.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Congrats to NON PRIZE WINNERS and their parents in WYCC

            Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
            Steve, no dispute on your points about hard work being needed to excel in all these activities.

            Hard work is one thing: rote memorization is another. The problem with chess, unique from the other activities, is that the hard work involved takes the fun and creativity out of the activity.
            The hard work can take the fun out of any activity...rote memorization is just another way of doing it. You don't have much of a clue about all this, do you?
            Fred Harvey

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            • #7
              Re: Congrats to NON PRIZE WINNERS and their parents in WYCC

              Originally posted by fred harvey View Post
              The hard work can take the fun out of any activity...rote memorization is just another way of doing it. You don't have much of a clue about all this, do you?
              Status quo, baby! We'll defend it to the death!

              Memorize those opening lines, kids. You have no choice. Forget about chess960, it's EVIL!
              Only the rushing is heard...
              Onward flies the bird.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Congrats to NON PRIZE WINNERS and their parents in WYCC

                Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
                Status quo, baby! We'll defend it to the death!

                Memorize those opening lines, kids. You have no choice. Forget about chess960, it's EVIL!
                Nope. Its not EVIL its just a different game from the one we know and love. Like bughouse.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Congrats to NON PRIZE WINNERS and their parents in WYCC

                  Originally posted by Garland Best View Post
                  While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment of congratulating ALL of the Canadian WYCC members, perhaps next time you could simply do so, rather than take the opportunity to also take a swipe at the CFC President and chess in general. It cheapens the message.
                  Of course I anticipated this kind of response from someone. Since some of those kids might read this thread, at least the top post, I believe that the message contained in Qiyu's mother's blog is one that the kids have to hear sooner or later and it is best if it is sooner: the memorization aspect of chess is so pervasive to good results that if Qiyu had known from the beginning, she would not have even taken up chess.

                  Kids need to hear that. It's all fun and games when they start, until the adults take over and try turning the kids into poster children for the sad world of competitive chess. Some of them may like that world, but all of them should know what is involved as soon as they are old enough to understand.

                  My entire concern here is for the kids that aren't going to be able to handle competitive chess and what it will do to their psyche. Failure in chess for many kids eventually can transcend into failure in many other areas such as math and science, if the kid never loses the effect of "I'm stupid because I can't win at chess". Drkulec and many others gloss over this in their efforts to spread the gospel.

                  This is the danger of involving children in competitive chess where the stress is on winning. I have nothing but utter contempt who would even unwittingly do this to children for their own objectives.

                  As one suggestion: instead of a WYCC, have a WYGF where the GF stands for Games Festival. Instead of competitive matches leading to gold and silver and bronze medals, have "activities" such as invention of new variants and even non-chess games, solving of puzzles in teams where every child contributes, etc.
                  Only the rushing is heard...
                  Onward flies the bird.

                  Comment

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