Cell Rules Phones in CFC (Only) Rated Tournaments

[Eric Gedajlovic]

Hi,

Can someone please clarify what the cell phone rules are under current CFC regulations?

It is my understanding that under FIDE rules, players must not even have cell phones in their possession. I also believe that USCF rules are much more lax and players are not even automatically disqualified if their phone goes off. In this regard, it appears that arbiters in USCF rated tournaments are able to assess a less severe penalty for a phone going off.

So, what are the CFC rules? Are players allowed to have a cell phone in their possession? Are they automatically disqualified if it goes off? What discretion (if any) do CFC TDs have with regard to the application of these rules?

Thanks in advance for any responses or pointers to the appropriate CFC regs.

Eric

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Cell Rules Phones in CFC (Only) Rated Tournaments

Hi,

Can someone please clarify what the cell phone rules are under current CFC regulations?

It is my understanding that under FIDE rules, players must not even have cell phones in their possession. I also believe that USCF rules are much more lax and players are not even automatically disqualified if their phone goes off. In this regard, it appears that arbiters in USCF rated tournaments are able to assess a less severe penalty for a phone going off.

So, what are the CFC rules? Are players allowed to have a cell phone in their possession? Are they automatically disqualified if it goes off? What discretion (if any) do CFC TDs have with regard to the application of these rules?

Thanks in advance for any responses or pointers to the appropriate CFC regs.

Eric

Actually CFC rules should be the same as FIDE rules which require phones to be turned off and not on the person of the player. They can be in a bag. Hal Bond had players place turned off phones on the table in the Guelph Pro Am if I recall the announcement correctly. The FIDE emails that I have seen have indicated that just having a cell phone on your person even if turned off is enough to forfeit you during the game. Perhaps a FIDE arbiter like Hal or Aris might comment if there have been new developments that I am not familiar with.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: Cell Rules Phones in CFC (Only) Rated Tournaments

Hi,

Can someone please clarify what the cell phone rules are under current CFC regulations?

It is my understanding that under FIDE rules, players must not even have cell phones in their possession. I also believe that USCF rules are much more lax and players are not even automatically disqualified if their phone goes off. In this regard, it appears that arbiters in USCF rated tournaments are able to assess a less severe penalty for a phone going off.

So, what are the CFC rules? Are players allowed to have a cell phone in their possession? Are they automatically disqualified if it goes off? What discretion (if any) do CFC TDs have with regard to the application of these rules?

Thanks in advance for any responses or pointers to the appropriate CFC regs.

Eric

Part of the (new) FIDE rules is that organizers may specify lessor (less stringent) regulations. The default is that if a phone is in your possession in the playing area, you forfeit. Organizers are supposed to specify in advance if their rules are different.

You play in Victoria Chess tournaments - for those, our rules are specified on our Policies page (http://grandpacificopen.pbworks.com/...18009/Policies). Short version: you may have a phone, must be turned completely off (except for photos in first 10 minutes), and a penalty if that is not observed which depends on the arbiter's discretion (time penalty ranging up to a forfeit).

[Roger Patterson]

ps

ps: Theoretically speaking, another FIDE rule (and CFC rules are supposed to be the same) which is supposed to apply unless organizers specify differently is the zero tolerance rule. Our tournaments (and the BCCF has also specified that all tournaments in BC) use the one hour grace period before forfeit.

I haven't seen many (or any) tournaments in Canada other than ours advertising non-zero tolerance so in principle, most Swisses in Canada are supposed to be operating with zero tolerance. Reality on the ground appears to be different :-)

Maybe the CFC should (as the BCCF did) pass a motion that the default in Canadian tournaments is not zero tolerance but is one hour (or some other time period).

FIDE rules generally are not formulated with low level events in mind.

[Eric Gedajlovic]

Re: ps

So does this mean that directors of CFC Rated Tournaments need to apply the strict rules as per FIDE regulations unless there are less harsh penalties specified in their tournament regulations and that tournament organizers can choose to specify their own rules regarding cell phones and time before forfeit?

ps: Theoretically speaking, another FIDE rule (and CFC rules are supposed to be the same) which is supposed to apply unless organizers specify differently is the zero tolerance rule. Our tournaments (and the BCCF has also specified that all tournaments in BC) use the one hour grace period before forfeit.

I haven't seen many (or any) tournaments in Canada other than ours advertising non-zero tolerance so in principle, most Swisses in Canada are supposed to be operating with zero tolerance. Reality on the ground appears to be different :-)

Maybe the CFC should (as the BCCF did) pass a motion that the default in Canadian tournaments is not zero tolerance but is one hour (or some other time period).

FIDE rules generally are not formulated with low level events in mind.

[Eric Gedajlovic]

Re: Cell Rules Phones in CFC (Only) Rated Tournaments

Thanks Vlad for taking the time to reply. I'll wait to see if any the folks you mention offer some guidance.

[Stephen Wright]

Re: ps

As of July 1, 2014 the default time is left to the organizer, FIDE no longer specifies the length of time, zero or otherwise:

6.7
a. The rules of a competition shall specify in advance a default time. Any player who arrives at the chessboard after the default time shall lose the game unless the arbiter decides otherwise.
b. If the rules of a competition specify that the default time is not zero and if neither player is present initially, White shall lose all the time that elapses until he arrives, unless the rules of the competition specify or the arbiter decides otherwise.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: ps

You as a TD can be very mean and punish those with phones in their pockets. You'll be right according to rules.
Or you can be lenient and let people play chess without disturbance. In 99% cases players' (smart)phones are more valuable than tournaments' prizes. Leaving phones unattended in bags could create more problems.

Though, you should be strict with ringing phones LOL

[Eric Gedajlovic]

Re: ps

I understand that people have different views on how cell phones are treated in CFC rated events.

What I am asking is whether arbiters and organizers are bound by FIDE's strict rules or whether they have leeway to specify their own rules regarding cell phones? I know this happens in USCF events and have even heard TDs state at a major US Event that cell phones going off in FIDE rated sections would mean disqualification, but in other sections, the same thing would result in simply a ten minute penalty or half of a player's remaining time.

Do arbiters and tournament organizers have similar discretion under CFC rules?

[Gordon Ritchie]

Re: Cell Rules Phones in CFC (Only) Rated Tournaments

Our policy in Ottawa is simple: if your phone rings you default on the spot. As to tolerance for late starts, we do allow half an hour before default.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: ps

"Do arbiters and tournament organizers have similar discretion under CFC rules?"

There was no special motion passed for phone (non)usage in the CFC rated events recently. Long time ago (~10 years) CFC Governors agreed to scrap the CFC Chess rules and use 100% FIDE rules. That was in the CFC Handbook. Now I see only this sentence: "Unless specified elsewhere in this Handbook, the regulations surrounding the play of chess in Canada are governed by the FIDE Handbook."

FIDE rules:
11.3

b. During play, a player is forbidden to have a mobile phone and/or other electronic means of communication in the playing venue. If it is evident that a player brought such a device into the playing venue, he shall lose the game. The opponent shall win.
The rules of a competition may specify a different, less severe, penalty.
The arbiter may require the player to allow his clothes, bags or other items to be inspected, in private. The arbiter or a person authorised by the arbiter shall inspect the player and shall be of the same gender as the player. If a player refuses to cooperate with these obligations, the arbiter shall take measures in accordance with Article 12.9.

What I am asking is whether arbiters and organizers are bound by FIDE's strict rules or whether they have leeway to specify their own rules regarding cell phones?

Yes, you may specify a different penalty.

Options for penalties from the FIDE book:

12.9
Options available to the arbiter concerning penalties:

warning
increasing the remaining time of the opponent
reducing the remaining time of the offending player
increasing the points scored in the game by the opponent to the maximum available for that game
reducing the points scored in the game by the offending person
declaring the game to be lost by the offending player (the arbiter shall also decide the opponent’s score)
a fine announced in advance
expulsion from the competition.

As I see your mentioned US events use " reducing the remaining time of the offending player" and "expulsion from the competition".

[Eric Gedajlovic]

Re: ps

Thank you very much Egidijus for taking the time to reply to my question and for looking up the relevant FIDE regs. Does this discretion extend to a cell phone going off or just cell phone possession?

Do any others who are organizers or arbiters have any other interpretations of these rules or believe that other regs apply?

There was no special motion passed for phone (non)usage in the CFC rated events recently. Long time ago (~10 years) CFC Governors agreed to scrap the CFC Chess rules and use 100% FIDE rules. That was in the CFC Handbook. Now I see only this sentence: "Unless specified elsewhere in this Handbook, the regulations surrounding the play of chess in Canada are governed by the FIDE Handbook."





Yes, you may specify a different penalty.

Options for penalties from the FIDE book:


As I see your mentioned US events use " reducing the remaining time of the offending player" and "expulsion from the competition".

[Alex Ferreira]

Re: ps

Hi.


There is a lot of discretion to the arbiter. FIDE rules like everyone else said are such that no cellphones or electronic devices of any sort should be allowed. I personally like the zero tolerance rule. People in Canada are way too relaxed when it comes to not shutting their phones off. They are also pretty relaxed about picking them up, too! Because they are the most important person in the world and creating a nuisance for a hundred other people is just 'not a thing'. A lot of people also don't seem to understand that having a phone on vibrate is equally not allowed. Texting is not allowed. Checking the time on your phone is not allowed. Leaving the playing hall to use the phone is not allowed. Checking your e-mails is not allowed. It's also important to note that, especially in FIDE-rated the tournaments, the arbiter does NOT have to announce what the rules are in regard to cellphones. The arbiter is nobody's mom and dad to remind players to turn their phones off. This is an international, mainstream, OLD rule, at the pace we move in society today. It is the player's responsibility to know that this is a rule before entering the competition.

An additional annoyance is dealing with spectators. Any person with a grain of common sense would enter a chess playing hall, witness 100 people in dead silence, even without knowing anything about chess or the competition rules and think 'hey, let me make sure I am not going to be the celebrity here by being a completely inconsiderate jerk'. However, most spectators at chess tournaments are *perfectly* aware of what the competition rules are, but can't be bothered to comply. Why should they? There's no penalty other than being expelled for the round / competition.
How does an arbiter forfeit a 7 year old child's game because his dad thinks he's the King of Zimbabwe? Can't! What if this child needs the parent to check up on them?

The reality is that we are still very amateur-ish on how we approach this issue. Either that, or certain individuals should be forbidden from entering future competitions if they simply don't get it. Should we ban all spectators?

There have however, been exceptional competition exceptions which I have mixed feelings about, but I can see both sides of the argument. For example, historically at the Canadian Universities Chess Championship, cellphone policy has been rather relaxed, many players being let off the hook with a warning. The competition has not been FIDE-rated, and often times, about half of the participants are not regular tournament players (have either played in childhood in scholastic events several years back, or are only now being introduced to tournament chess). To add to it, it's a team event (4 players per team playing at any given time), so a forfeit loss will be an additional pain in the butt where the player at fault will not be the only one penalized. I can appreciate the lee-way allowed for a tournament of this nature (team, friendly, social, yet competitive) in regards to phones. A first-tournament-experience where several individual and team results are decided on phone forfeits would likely be a huge turn-off for someone attempting to enter the scene.

However as I mentioned, I am in favour of zero tolerance at most tournaments. If Canada is to catch up with the rest of the world in attempting to be professional about chess, this is an obvious step. Cell phone anything during a chess game should be left for casual club chess. Yap with your buddies during a chess game at the park!



Alex Ferreira

[Erik Malmsten]

Re: ps

At the pwc Toronto Open in 2009 I lost half my time. I had turned my phone on to see the time at the start of the round and forgot to turn it off. At the following Canadian Open it was hard to recruit volunteers to sit at the phone drop off box. A local doctor is always concerned about playing as he is always on standby for an emergency call. I just played in 2 tournaments at Guelph and Hart House with my phone off in my pocket and never took it out. After the round I would check for a text message for my work start time. In the past I had given it to Hal, but my new phone doesn't have a chess analysis program.

If the games are carried live on the Internet a text or call could be giving analysis. But we're just playing recreational chess. I remember 40 years an opponent going to the washroom on his move and he had a pocket chess set and came back 20 minutes later and made a sac. The TD refused to look through the crack in the washroom stall. I guess a player could do the same today with a chess engine on their phone.

If a child's parent's phone goes off should the child be forfeited? That would be horrible, but get the message across. I also don't like it when a parent is sitting nearby with a chess program open on their computer.

At Hart House there was an announcement about parents speaking non-English to their children during their game. I remember being disturbed when an upset coach was giving his student hell in Russian for blundering against me. I don't like it when coaches hover over the board and approach the board at the end of the game, leave the discussion for the skittles room.

[Pierre Denommee]

Re: ps

See this link for the bag rule https://www.fide.com/component/conte...of-chess-.html

Note the FIDE Interpretation at the end.

In minor chess tournaments, where the players is not possible to leave their mobiles out of the playing hall and the organizers cannot provide an area for collecting the mobiles of all the players during the rounds, the Arbiters have the possibility to apply the new wording of the article 11.3.b., allowing the players to have their mobile phones in their bags, but completely switched off.

The player shall inform the Arbiter before the start of the round, in case that a completely switched off mobile phone, or any electronic mean of communication, or any other device capable of suggesting chess moves is in his/her bag.

All the above shall be included in the rules of competition (tournament regulations) of the specific event in advance. The Chief Arbiter may make an announcement before the start of the round.

This possibility will not be valid for the World and Continental FIDE events.

It is the rules of the Competition that must specify the possibility of a lesser penalty, it is not an arbiter discretion case.

For all serious tournaments, such as the Canadian Closed, the players should not carry any phone, tablet, laptop...

FIDE recommends the use of cell phones jammers, but they are illegal in Canada.