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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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We are almost in Oct now - 2 months away from Christmas and then we are in year 2016.....How time flies in 2015....
Is there any news on the two tournaments above ?
I guess organizers for qualifying tournaments will be making their plans and announcement soon for the CYCC. Is there a possibility that CYCC will not be held if there is no bid for it ? Windsor did a great job hosting the tournament this year and we hope next year organizer will be able to match them.
As for NAYCC - next year is supposed to be Canada's turn. Chess and Math did a fantastic job in hosting the tournament in 2013 in Toronto. Are they going to host again ? Any bid so far ?
Before we know it, 2016 will be here in less than 92 days !!!
Last edited by Gary Hua; Friday, 30th October, 2015, 02:04 PM.
if no one bids CYCC, I think that Windsor is happy to host it again as well as NAYCC. Hope Mississauga can host it, or a city around Toronto, ideally reasonable hotel rate, less traffic, free parking, lots of restaurants.
Last edited by George Zhou; Wednesday, 30th September, 2015, 10:48 AM.
The plunge in oil prices and corresponding economic downturn in Alberta happened to the Alberta bid. They were expecting to raise sponsorship funds from corporate sources in Calgary which is not likely in the current climate. They were more interested in the Canadian Open than CYCC, in any case.
I was recently discussing the issue of standard annual tournaments not being held recently: Canadian Open, Toronto Labour Day Open, Toronto Thanksgiving Day Open. Phil Haley, who has retired from active chess admin some time ago, but who has organized and arbitrated, was perplexed as to what was happening.
I advised (My opinion only) that the problem was the private enterprise approach. CFC does not organize tournaments. Rather it agrees to sponsor good bids from private enterprise organizers. The organizer gets the CFC label of approval, to help them hold a successful tournament, and make some profit to cover their expenses, and hopefully some compensation for labour, time, stress, effort, etc. CFC gets its important tournaments held. Its a partnership.
Problems for organizing as a part-time, small, side business:
Rising expenses (especially playing halls - Toronto playing halls costs??);
Chess player reticence towards increased registration fees;
Chess player desire for higher prizes, at all levels;
Difficulty of sponsorship money acquisition, especially re adult tournaments (a bit easier sometimes re junior tournaments);
Some players being unwilling to pre-register early, especially titled players, to assist organizers in promoting their tournament; etc.;
(list your other items inhibiting private enterprise now taking up this business).
Organizers have been losing money sometimes - they take the risk of either profit or loss (not CFC's liability). Yet tournaments do continue, some annually, so these private enterprizers seem to have figured this business out better than some others.
But it is my observation that the number of active organizers in Canada is slowly dwindling; and there are few NEW young organizers taking this up as a private enterprise business. Am I right on this observation?
What is your opinion on all this?
Bob A
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Sunday, 1st November, 2015, 06:39 PM.
The majority of chess organizers are volunteers in the strictest of terms, for absolutely no benefit or profit for themselves. They do it for the love of the game and in the belief that if they didn’t do it, nobody would. I am sure everyone knows a story of a chess club or community folding because the lone generous soul who keeps it going either quits or dies. Usually someone else eventually picks up the torch, and the cycle repeats itself. Larger clubs can protect themselves against collapse by developing a critical mass of volunteers. But large or small, they share one common trait, an adherence to a strict interpretation of volunteerism. No benefit, fee, compensation, no matter how small, for chess organizers.
This concept of volunteerism permeates into weekend tournaments and even to large national events, where the workload is substantial. The sentiment amongst much of the chess community is that every dollar must go towards the prize fund leaving nothing for the organizers and volunteers. Against this backdrop, it is difficult to see many entrepreneurial types stepping into the breach with hopes of profits or even earning a modest fee for their efforts.
I am hopeful that a paradigm shift is underway towards a more liberal interpretation of volunteer. This would include reasonable fees and modest profits being accepted by the chess community as normal.
The majority of chess organizers are volunteers in the strictest of terms, for absolutely no benefit or profit for themselves. They do it for the love of the game and in the belief that if they didn’t do it, nobody would. I am sure everyone knows a story of a chess club or community folding because the lone generous soul who keeps it going either quits or dies. Usually someone else eventually picks up the torch, and the cycle repeats itself. Larger clubs can protect themselves against collapse by developing a critical mass of volunteers. But large or small, they share one common trait, an adherence to a strict interpretation of volunteerism. No benefit, fee, compensation, no matter how small, for chess organizers.
This concept of volunteerism permeates into weekend tournaments and even to large national events, where the workload is substantial. The sentiment amongst much of the chess community is that every dollar must go towards the prize fund leaving nothing for the organizers and volunteers. Against this backdrop, it is difficult to see many entrepreneurial types stepping into the breach with hopes of profits or even earning a modest fee for their efforts.
I am hopeful that a paradigm shift is underway towards a more liberal interpretation of volunteer. This would include reasonable fees and modest profits being accepted by the chess community as normal.
Call me crazy, but I can dream.
The first 2 paragraphs are an excellent summary of the situation, Bob. Another aspect that could be added is that the CFC is now emphasizing youth events above all else, and so the events that are dying out are the ones that include adults. This seems to have reached a critical mass so that adult tournament chess can now be said to definitely be going the way of bridge, as described in another thread... i.e. dying a slow but inexorable death.
Chess is a pure skill game, and as such, can never expect to generate enough money to pay its organizers a reasonable return for their time and effort. There is simply no way out of that constraint besides either donor generosity (money from heaven, a la Rex Sinquefield in St. Louis) or changing chess to bring in a significant element of luck in results.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
This seems to have reached a critical mass so that adult tournament chess can now be said to definitely be going the way of bridge, as described in another thread... i.e. dying a slow but inexorable death.
Oh, C'mon Paul. Your bringing me down!
Who do you think the adult members of the future are? The kids. Consider it an investment in the adult membership of the future. We do have a record breaking team of 56 kids currently competing in Greece at the WYCC. Not so bad, eh, for a 3rd world chess power?
Oh, C'mon Paul. Your bringing me down!
Who do you think the adult members of the future are? The kids. Consider it an investment in the adult membership of the future. We do have a record breaking team of 56 kids currently competing in Greece at the WYCC. Not so bad, eh, for a 3rd world chess power?
Not trying to bring anybody 'down', but rather to face reality. Chess has always been a difficult sell in North America, and now it is transitioning to a children's game. Your record-breaking number of kids only emphasize that.
Sure, a small percentage of them may come back to chess... in their 30s, 40s, or 50s. But that 'business model' has been proven to be anemic at best. A far greater business model, if it were possible, would be to attract CURRENT ADULTS into chess. 600 million casual chess players worldwide and something like 150K registered with FIDE. A struggle to maintain a 0.025% membership ... that is a record of abject failure, and THAT is what should be bringing you down.
But it's a losing proposition to try and attract adults to an activity that takes them away from their not-interested-in-chess friends and families whole weekends at a time, over and over again, while also demanding they read chess books, study openings, play through games for hours on end, all so that they might get good enough to win the odd.... trophy.... and maybe enough cash to treat 2 or 3 friends to dinner. I do hope the people who live that lifestyle can continue on, there's nothing wrong with it if you like it, but you are NOT going to win any noticeable increase in adult society over to it just by, for example, getting the word out about your tournament events, nor by showing them on the 6 o'clock news 56 Canadian kids playing in Greece.
Just saying...
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Not trying to bring anybody 'down', but rather to face reality. Chess has always been a difficult sell in North America, and now it is transitioning to a children's game. Your record-breaking number of kids only emphasize that.
Sure, a small percentage of them may come back to chess... in their 30s, 40s, or 50s. But that 'business model' has been proven to be anemic at best. A far greater business model, if it were possible, would be to attract CURRENT ADULTS into chess. 600 million casual chess players worldwide and something like 150K registered with FIDE. A struggle to maintain a 0.025% membership ... that is a record of abject failure, and THAT is what should be bringing you down.
But it's a losing proposition to try and attract adults to an activity that takes them away from their not-interested-in-chess friends and families whole weekends at a time, over and over again, while also demanding they read chess books, study openings, play through games for hours on end, all so that they might get good enough to win the odd.... trophy.... and maybe enough cash to treat 2 or 3 friends to dinner. I do hope the people who live that lifestyle can continue on, there's nothing wrong with it if you like it, but you are NOT going to win any noticeable increase in adult society over to it just by, for example, getting the word out about your tournament events, nor by showing them on the 6 o'clock news 56 Canadian kids playing in Greece.
Just saying...
Just saying!!! OMG, how do I even get up every morning!.....oh ya, coffee. :)
Anyway, the CFC does need a new publicity officer.
If Paul's post motivates anyone to take the job, great. Your first task would be to refute Paul's argument. Consider it your job interview. :)
Who do you think the adult members of the future are?
I have a simple question to (about) retired people - why do they not take matters in their hands? They should have more time than an average working/family person. Even if those tournaments were only for seniors it would increase a bump on the other side of the membership distribution curve.
I advised (My opinion only) that the problem was the private enterprise approach. Bob A
Bob, what other approach other than private enterprise is possible? "Public enterprise" - with the CFC taking the responsibility, and paying a local organiser, seems too cumbersome.
I seem to recall, way in the misty past, that CYCC entry fees were sent to the office, which then sent a portion to the local organiser, but that approach collapsed during the financial meltdown at the CFC in 2005-06.
So, if we don't go with "private enterprise", with the "entepreneur" earning peanuts, what other choices are possible?
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