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When I was sitting in the press/captain area at the 2004 Olympiad, I happened to be sitting beside GM Tukmakov, the captain for Russia. We discussed team approaches, and he was adamant that the team captain decides players, line-up each day, and anything else. He jokingly told me the team feared him picking them to play each day as they knew the expectation/pressure of that decision.
I don't know how the selectors are chosen, and possibly others were asked prior and declined. Of course no system is foolproof - what happens when 2 players are on by rating who collude to have their buddy on the team, etc. Having a good decision-maker captain such as IM Vranesic, or going completely by rating (with long advance notice of rules), or members already on selecting, or a selection committee are equally good and bad, as one can imagine potential biases/disasters for any of them.
Regardless, this year's team is amazing and assuming it is well managed, will no doubt outshine all previous teams. I look forward to all Canadians getting behind our teams for the upcoming Olympiad.
Of course the team captain decides everything! In 1986 when I was the captain in Dubai I was approached by Gufeld. The World Junior was supposed to be in Toronto the next year and he wanted to be invited as a arbiter. Canada's bid was done by Yves Farges on the dream he could find funding and it was never going to happen. I tried to explain to him that I didn't expect the event to take place in Canada, and am sure he thought I was just jerking him around, not wanting to help him. How could a Russian understand that a bid would be submitted without the support and resources of the national federation to make it happen? And in Russia of course the team captain is a big deal - full time year round position- getting someone an invitation as an arbiter would be easy - how could he imagine a team captain who goes back to a day job, maybe doesn't even look at a chessboard for six months?
Pray tell, what is the "better process". I have been involved in the Olympiad selection/etc for a long while. I am no fan of the "CFC", yet, I don't follow what would be a superior process than either forgetting about the original concept of going strictly by rating to avoid an anomaly, or having 3 reasonably knowledgeable/objective people decide.
I am not a fan of presenting problems without analysis, and a recommended alternative. At least IM Noritsyn did this.
Brian
Objective ? Really ?... The good GM who was chosen has had considerable access to the chess establishment for a long time. Even if we grant nothing improper took place and the committee did it's best to be objective, based on the makeup of the committee and the other players who were overlooked, it sure doesn't have the appearance of objectivity.
When I was sitting in the press/captain area at the 2004 Olympiad, I happened to be sitting beside GM Tukmakov, the captain for Russia. We discussed team approaches, and he was adamant that the team captain decides players, line-up each day, and anything else. He jokingly told me the team feared him picking them to play each day as they knew the expectation/pressure of that decision.
I don't know how the selectors are chosen, and possibly others were asked prior and declined. Of course no system is foolproof - what happens when 2 players are on by rating who collude to have their buddy on the team, etc. Having a good decision-maker captain such as IM Vranesic, or going completely by rating (with long advance notice of rules), or members already on selecting, or a selection committee are equally good and bad, as one can imagine potential biases/disasters for any of them.
Regardless, this year's team is amazing and assuming it is well managed, will no doubt outshine all previous teams. I look forward to all Canadians getting behind our teams for the upcoming Olympiad.
Brian
The selection committee consists of players who are at least NM in strength and it is supposed to represent three different regions of the country. It is somewhere on the CFC website, but I am too lazy to find the exact location or wording.
The selection committee consists of players who are at least NM in strength and it is supposed to represent three different regions of the country. It is somewhere on the CFC website, but I am too lazy to find the exact location or wording.
There is no requirement for a regional dependency for selection members in the Handbook. The CFC-FQE agreement gives the spot for the FQE in the selection committee (and still a person can be from anywhere.)
"The CFC Executive shall appoint a Selection Committee consisting of three well known and respected individuals who are of at least master strength and have knowledge of the Canadian chess community."
"FQE would participate on the selection committee for deter mining participation to International events, 1/3 of the composition of those committees would be FQE representatives."
There is no requirement for a regional dependency for selection members in the Handbook. The CFC-FQE agreement gives the spot for the FQE in the selection committee (and still a person can be from anywhere.)
"The CFC Executive shall appoint a Selection Committee consisting of three well known and respected individuals who are of at least master strength and have knowledge of the Canadian chess community."
"FQE would participate on the selection committee for deter mining participation to International events, 1/3 of the composition of those committees would be FQE representatives."
Perhaps, it was an unofficial understanding then. In the past they had two people often from the same province which one year almost lead to Eric Hansen not being selected for the Olympiad in which he easily over-performed his last GM norm.
Objective ? Really ?... The good GM who was chosen has had considerable access to the chess establishment for a long time. Even if we grant nothing improper took place and the committee did it's best to be objective, based on the makeup of the committee and the other players who were overlooked, it sure doesn't have the appearance of objectivity.
One can expect honesty, but not objectivity. No one is totally objective. We all come with our background, experience, etc. All that builds subjectivity.
Why do you presume to know the information the committee had at their disposal in this or any other year? Your ranting posts simply point toward someone being a victim of their own complaint.
I welcome you becoming a cheerleader to the fantastic teams we have this year. It is disconcerting the lack of positive posts to the players, and others, devoting non-paid time to the Olympiad - I feel it would be more appealing for me to tell those in person what I think of their posts. Happy to do so.
Have you ever made a positive contribution to Canadian chess? If not, this would be an ideal time to start.
Perhaps, it was an unofficial understanding then. In the past they had two people often from the same province which one year almost lead to Eric Hansen not being selected for the Olympiad in which he easily over-performed his last GM norm.
I don't know what happened in the past and who was part of the selection committee at that time but the 2012 team had 2 players from Alberta, 2 from Ontario and 1 from Quebec, so what you're saying doesn't make sense to me.
The 2016 team has 2 players from Ontario, 2 players from Quebec and 1 player from Alberta. Maybe having 3 players from Ontario didn't look good for FQE. I didn't think of this.
I don't know what happened in the past and who was part of the selection committee at that time but the 2012 team had 2 players from Alberta, 2 from Ontario and 1 from Quebec, so what you're saying doesn't make sense to me.
The 2016 team has 2 players from Ontario, 2 players from Quebec and 1 player from Alberta. Maybe having 3 players from Ontario didn't look good for FQE. I didn't think of this.
I don't think that it's a good idea to divide everything based on provinces or regions. I think that often the problem is that if a player is from Ontario and there is someone worth considering from the west they would simply not know enough about their play or not know them personally to pass a judgement which would be a disadvantage to that person. As such, having a more spread out selection committee seems to make more sense to me. Personally, I don't know any reason for why a selection committee made a decision that it did this year, but I did know that they weren't going to select Eric in 2012 at first if the committee was what it was first supposed to be which is consisting of two Ontario players with no one else. I don't think that they had some bad intentions, instead I think that they just didn't know him enough, as opposed to knowing players who play more often in the tournaments that they participate in themselves locally.
Why do you presume to know the information the committee had at their disposal in this or any other year? Your ranting posts simply point toward someone being a victim of their own complaint.
I welcome you becoming a cheerleader to the fantastic teams we have this year. It is disconcerting the lack of positive posts to the players, and others, devoting non-paid time to the Olympiad - I feel it would be more appealing for me to tell those in person what I think of their posts. Happy to do so.
Have you ever made a positive contribution to Canadian chess? If not, this would be an ideal time to start.
Brian
"Your ranting posts simply point toward someone being a victim of their own complaint."
"I feel it would be more appealing for me to tell those in person what I think of their posts. Happy to do so."
Meaningless rants if I've ever seen any...
Did I touch a nerve somewhere by pointing out facts such as the head to head score between the players ? The ad hominem attacks suggest someone doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. As for honesty, at least one of the members of the committee has a full time job organizing chess, paid for by tax dollars for more than a decade - so much for devoting "non-paid" time.
Last edited by Dan Alistair; Friday, 29th April, 2016, 05:06 PM.
To make this somewhat constructive, versus your nonsensical responses, I challenge you to donate $1,000 to the Olympiad teams this year, and I will happily double it.
To make this somewhat constructive, versus your nonsensical responses, I challenge you to donate $1,000 to the Olympiad teams this year, and I will happily double it.
Brian
I note you're not addressing the points raised, but changing the topic. To make this more constructive and stay on topic, how about we ask for fairness in the selection process?
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