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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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Juri is a face to face or phone person and not an internet person which is probably just as well. Most women won't touch Chesstalk with a ten foot pole because there is a high probablility that they will get caught up in exchanges with an insane person. Nothing gets decided on Chesstalk. You seem to want to change the status quo. I don't think chess can be considered part of the mainstream if it casts off 51% of the Canadian population which is, in effect, what you want to do.
I am sorry Vlad, that after all the years you have worked with me on chess promotion, you hold that view of me.
I want the women, all of them, as many as possible, to play chess, in the one open system (And to play in women-only tournaments if that is a preference for them and there are organizers willing to organize them).
I am sorry Vlad, that after all the years you have worked with me on chess promotion, you hold that view of me.
I want the women, all of them, as many as possible, to play chess, in the one open system (And to play in women-only tournaments if that is a preference for them and there are organizers willing to organize them).
Bob A
Now I'm confused. Which view of you? I was not referring to you as the crazy person but rather several he who shall not be named entities who haunt this place. It seems to me that you want to jettison the whole women's system which would be jettisoning women's chess. I coach girls and I know how difficult it is to keep them coming back even when they are potential olympiad team members down the road. I disagree with you fundamentally on this and various political questions but still regard you quite positively and remember you as a tireless volunteer for the CFC and also a pleasant person to talk to at tournaments.
Bob, with all due respect, what is this obsession you have with women's chess? Leave it alone. Rationalize your behaviour any way you want but it remains, as R.P. said, a little bit weird.
Has any Canadian woman chess player ever complained about this? My opinion is simple: men should not try to decide for women what is good for them. If they like the system as it is right now, why should any man bother to change it?
Has any Canadian woman chess player ever complained about this? My opinion is simple: men should not try to decide for women what is good for them. If they like the system as it is right now, why should any man bother to change it?
Hi Louis:
This whole topic arose because current women's champion, Hou Yifan, in an interview after winning the championship in the recent match (The format this time), revealed, I think for the first time, that she felt the current women's cycle was unfair to women (I am not sure if she said or implied that compared to the current open cycle, the current women's cycle was "discriminatory").
So this time around, my raising it was as a result of Yifan raising it (And it is true, I, as a man concerned about discrimination, have raised it a few times previously in my life, for women to consider, particularly when involved in CFC, and trying to do chess promotion, because I (as a human) felt it was discriminatory, if it is going to exist; this is a separate issue from whether the system is, in the long run, detrimental to women's progress in chess). Yifan revealed that she proposed three new alternative cycles for FIDE to consider. They rejected all!
But I do agree with you that women should be the decider of what they want, and if they want a discriminatory system, for some other perceived benefits to them (Such as income from chess), then men likely should stay out of it, even if they feel it is anti-social.
My goal here, was to generate an informed debate (Which has happened (On Ct of all places!!), given the scientific papers now presented on male/female brain-hardwiring differences). Then I hoped somehow this debate content might get to Canadian women chess players, for them to then debate it among themselves from their unique perspective (It is the system they must play in at the moment). I had hoped this might be something the CFC Women's Coordinator might take up.....I imagined she did not follow Chesstalk, but I hoped one of the CFC Executive would alert her to a topic of potential interest to Canadian women chess players, being raised by a Canadian male chess player, and being discussed only by Canadian male chess players.
Bob A
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Wednesday, 13th April, 2016, 12:40 PM.
This whole topic arose because current women's champion, Hou Yifan, in an interview after winning the championship in the recent match (The format this time), revealed, I think for the first time, that she felt the current women's cycle was unfair to women (I am not sure if she said or implied that compared to the current open cycle, the current women's cycle was "discriminatory").
So this time around, my raising it was as a result of Yifan raising it (And it is true, I, as a man concerned about discrimination, have raised it a few times previously in my life, for women to consider, particularly when involved in CFC, and trying to do chess promotion, because I (as a human) felt it was discriminatory, if it is going to exist; this is a separate issue from whether the system is, in the long run, detrimental to women's progress in chess). Yifan revealed that she proposed three new alternative cycles for FIDE to consider. They rejected all!
But I do agree with you that women should be the decider of what they want, and if they want a discriminatory system, for some other perceived benefits to them (Such as income from chess), then men likely should stay out of it, even if they feel it is anti-social.
My goal here, was to generate an informed debate (Which has happened (On Ct of all places!!), given the scientific papers now presented on male/female brain-hardwiring differences). Then I hoped somehow this debate content might get to Canadian women chess players, for them to then debate it among themselves from their unique perspective (It is the system they must play in at the moment). I had hoped this might be something the CFC Women's Coordinator might take up.....I imagined she did not follow Chesstalk, but I hoped one of the CFC Executive would alert her to a topic of potential interest to Canadian women chess players, being raised by a Canadian male chess player, and being discussed only by Canadian male chess players.
The gist of what she says (or so it seems to me) is that she would prefer to see a separate championship system for women that concludes with a match for the title. She doesn't like using a knock-out tournament to determine the women's world champion. She didn't say anything about a separate system of women's titles and championships being unfair or discriminatory towards women. This bee (separate system) seems to be buzzing around only in your bonnet, Bob. If I'm misinterpreting her comments, or not using the right interview for my information, then please correct me.
I don't understand the second paragraph in your post. It's like you think that the interview was a coded message from Hou Yifan to you, giving you the green light to start the process of changing women's chess. Why? Because women are incapable of doing it themselves? Because you know better than women do (when it comes to chess at least) what is discriminatory and what isn't? What's in their best interests and what is not? Don't you think that's a little condescending, Bob?
p.s. If you want to generate an informed debate then maybe you should start by informing yourself.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
This is another interview with Hou Yifan, from July, 2015, which seems to indicate the same thing as the more recent interview I linked earlier; i.e. she wants the women's world championship decided by a match, not a knock-out tournament.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Re: Re : Re: FIDE & The Women's Parallel Chess System
Hi Peter:
You are right on one thing......I used an incomplete secondary source, and so had to be hesitant about what she seemed to be saying. I should myself have sought out the actual interview to be more clear, since it was the trigger for my post.....lesson learned.....thanks.
This is another interview with Hou Yifan, from July, 2015, which seems to indicate the same thing as the more recent interview I linked earlier; i.e. she wants the women's world championship decided by a match, not a knock-out tournament.
Hi Peter:
If there is to be a separate, parallel women's system set up by FIDE, then it should be fair to women, when compared to the open system of the World Chess Championship.
It is the knockout format that I have long been complaining about, and the alternating between match and championship knockout (where the current champion has no seeding; just an ordinary player).
So my concern is shared by the current women's world champion (of some help to my beleaguered campaign of many, many years).
Juri is a face to face or phone person and not an internet person which is probably just as well. Most women won't touch Chesstalk with a ten foot pole because there is a high probablility that they will get caught up in exchanges with an insane person. Nothing gets decided on Chesstalk. You seem to want to change the status quo. I don't think chess can be considered part of the mainstream if it casts off 51% of the Canadian population which is, in effect, what you want to do.
Something needs to be said here. Yes, this site was a complete zoo in the past, especially when there were aliases, cyber bullying, and politics on here that were off the chart stupid. Yes, I can fully understand why most woman would not want to post here. And I accept some blame and regret for empowering some of the idiots on here in the past.
But you need to understand that the very organization you lead now often was often an instigator in the problems, especially for woman's chess. I could go through them in detail, but I won't. You may have helped start a more enlightened era for the CFC, but referring to a person ( or people ) you don't like as "an insane person" is ignorant and uncalled for. You need to remember recent history with the CFC, recall some of the executive and governors of the past and their positions, and take a more conciliatory role now as a result.
Organized chess itself is at a crossroads. Is it really relevant moving forward ? As an avid player and a ( part time ? ) coach obviously you believe it does. At one point I would have agreed, now I am questioning it fully. You need to try to make it a positive experience for everyone and just hope that's enough. I think in general you've been a decent leader in a difficult position. The CFC itself I could never trust with anything important, but new people in the game you have a fresh start with.
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Thursday, 14th April, 2016, 02:12 PM.
Something needs to be said here. Yes, this site was a complete zoo in the past, especially when there were aliases, cyber bullying, and politics on here that were off the chart stupid. Yes, I can fully understand why most woman would not want to post here. And I accept some blame and regret for empowering some of the idiots on here in the past.
But you need to understand that the very organization you lead now often was often an instigator in the problems, especially for woman's chess.
The people I am referring to have done all of the above here on chesstalk as recently as a few months ago.
I realize that the CFC has had issues. One reason I became involved was that I didn't like the decisions that were being made.
I could go through them in detail, but I won't. You may have helped start a more enlightened era for the CFC, but referring to a person ( or people ) you don't like as "an insane person" is ignorant and uncalled for.
Possibly, but sometimes you do have to call a spade, a spade. To say that I don't like them is a slight inaccuracy. Indifference would be more accurate description.
You need to remember recent history with the CFC, recall some of the executive and governors of the past and their positions, and take a more conciliatory role now as a result.
I am quite capable of being conciliatory up to a point. In fact it is my default position in most cases. Unfortunately it is perceived by some as a sign of weakness.
Organized chess itself is at a crossroads. Is it really relevant moving forward ? As an avid player and a ( part time ? ) coach obviously you believe it does. At one point I would have agreed, now I am questioning it fully. You need to try to make it a positive experience for everyone and just hope that's enough. I think in general you've been a decent leader in a difficult position. The CFC itself I could never trust with anything important, but new people in the game you have a fresh start with.
My feeling is that trying to make it a positive experience for everyone is an exercise in futility particularly when you are talking about people who are trying to disrupt it for everyone.
...there is a high probablility that they will get caught up in exchanges with an insane person. Nothing gets decided on Chesstalk...
Depends what you mean by insane. Even for the remainder of humanity never posting on chesstalk there may be a very high percentage of insane/irrational people, because, e.g. arguments over Global Warming seldom seem rational or, at least mild-mannered.
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
Depends what you mean by insane. Even for the remainder of humanity never posting on chesstalk there may be a very high percentage of insane/irrational people, because, e.g. arguments over Global Warming seldom seem rational or, at least mild-mannered.
Usually I think of insane as someone who clearly advocates conspiracy theories and seems to have a weak grasp on reality. In order to gain perceived acceptance of his ravings he might go about creating sock puppets to agree with him. Anyway it has been pointed out to me that insanity is not really a thing but a legal construct. There is no DSM entry for insanity.
Usually I think of insane as someone who clearly advocates conspiracy theories and seems to have a weak grasp on reality. In order to gain perceived acceptance of his ravings he might go about creating sock puppets to agree with him. Anyway it has been pointed out to me that insanity is not really a thing but a legal construct. There is no DSM entry for insanity.
Fwiw, if you'd have said just "someone who...seems to have a weak grasp on reality.", I would have concluded that would at least include the majority of voters in Ontario. With electricity rates continuing to go up unnecessarily due to Green Energy, even as a 'reward' by the provincial liberal government for less public hydro consumption recently, I'm going to need to re-locate to a cheaper place someday soon. But I suppose I'm just 'raving'.
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
In the Olympic Games it is now okay for anatomical males to compete with anatomical females. Would being born with a male brain be a greater advantage in chess than say a sprinter being born with a man's larger heart, greater lung capacity, greater bone density, etc.?
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