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Women will be forced to compete in hijabs at the next world championship in Iran
"“Whether the student had a tuque, a hat, or lots of hair,” Legare said, the teacher had written in his course outline he would ask students to show him their ears, a policy she said was condoned by the biology department." (emphasis mine)
Strange choice of word as it makes the article rather ambiguous, imo.
What happens if the women need to be searched for possible communication devices - can they refuse like what happened to a Montreal student recently? She was about to write an exam, and was asked to remove her hijab (or at least raise part of it) so her ears could be "searched" for devices. She refused and was denied the right to take the exam.
I believe we will have to agree to disagree on this one. The Government of Iran has a bad record of its treatment of women. That I agree with. The imprisonment of Homa Hoodfar and the death of Zahra Kazemi are excellent reasons to denounce the tournament being held in Iran. The Hajib itself is not a reason.
The history of the Hajib in Iran is complex. Take a read of how Reza Shaw forcibly banned the Hajib in Iran in the 1930's and the reaction of the populance at that time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab_by_country#Iran).
Actually we are both wrong on this one. You are correct that the Burkini does not cover the face however France as a country has not banned this article of clothing, some mayors in France attempted to make a ban in their local areas and the highest court in France ruled this action illegal. http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/30/europe...n-burkini-ban/. I simply took you at your word that France had done this and found the idea inconceivable that such an action in France would have been done without a good reason and therefore incorrectly rationalized it.
As far as the history goes I do not think that figures into it. No governing body should be telling a group of people what to wear one way or the other. I consider the mayors attempt in France as equally as outrageous as what goes on in Iran. The Hajib edict is just one of many oppressive indignities inflicted on women in fundamental Islamic countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia that includes honor killings, no good defense for a women to charge a man criminally with rape, to even not allowing women to drive as is the case in Saudi Arabia. Women are severely beaten and even stoned to death for supposed infidelities. The Hajib edict is one that many women have decided to use as symbolic of their horrible oppression and I do not blame them. If you want to see atrocities committed by Islamic fundamentalists against women you tube has countless examples for the entire world to see.
You are correct, the Hajib in itself is not the issue, the many atrocities against women by the authors of this silly edict is.
I believe we will have to agree to disagree on this one. The Government of Iran has a bad record of its treatment of women. That I agree with. The imprisonment of Homa Hoodfar and the death of Zahra Kazemi are excellent reasons to denounce the tournament being held in Iran. The Hajib itself is not a reason.
The history of the Hajib in Iran is complex. Take a read of how Reza Shaw forcibly banned the Hajib in Iran in the 1930's and the reaction of the populance at that time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab_by_country#Iran).
Re: Women will be forced to compete in hijabs at the next world championship in Iran
You are correct but it's always difficult to have others face this reality and take a stand. And why on earth should a Canadian teenager have to face such a choice for a chess game ? Canadian chess officials too often go along with FIDE's mistakes because it's a monopoly situation and they are linked directly to them for certain events. I think FIDE has crossed a moral line here and it's embarrassing for the CFC to even hint at being agreeable in this situation.
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Monday, 3rd October, 2016, 09:22 PM.
I presume the posters on this thread understand the difference between the hijab (an attractive scarf with the style varying widely from country to country. See Wikipedia.) and the burka or niqab which is a full face covering. In general, I take the view that men and women should be free to wear whatever they wish. On a religious occasion, there are some constraints---e.g. the hats worn by women in Anglican and Jewish places of worship. I must admit that I too am squeamish about full face coverings which have no place in western society. But the hijab is really no big deal for me, any more than requiring men not to wear jeans at a golf course or long pants at the Masters.
That said, what is worn inside the playing hall is surely within the discretion of FIDE. If FIDE requires the hijab at the Women's World Chess Championship it is FIDE alone to blame.
I'm sorry, but there is so much more to this then wearing a scarf. My opinion is it's a method that males control female citizens and send a clear message that they are second class citizens. Even if one tries to down play that aspect, my understanding is that some who do wear it willingly consider it an open statement about their own beliefs. Enforcing wear for those who don't have those beliefs is an offence to those woman too.
And lastly, I have yet to see a statement that the men in attendance ( either as coaches, spectators, or officials ) have to condone to a similar dress code. If there is a code, why have we not heard about it yet ? This recent news helps illustrate certain aspects of Iran today :
I am not sure we are divided. No one likes the idea of women being forced to conform to the local customs but no one wants to prevent our Canadian champion from attending a tournament that she wants to attend and no one in this discussion except maybe Sid or his buddy Garry has the wherewithal to sponsor such a tournament in the west where no one will be forced to wear anything.
We ourselves have been faced with the situation of having to accept a substandard bid because it was the only one on the table. Unless we are willing to step up and organize the tournament we really don't have a lot to say.
Sid, no offense, but comparison of the hijab to the yellow star of David is specious. The yellow star was used by the Nazi regime in it's systematic genocide policy to the Jewish people. The hijab is worn in muslin society as a belief that women should dress modestly. Modesty is a relative term and is dependent on society's norms, which change with place and time.
As an example, there are women in Canada who have successfully fought for the right to go topless in public. They consider being forced to wear a top when outside a sign of oppression, as men are allowed to be topless in public. Would you have any issue if the Women's Championship was held in a place banning the players from playing topless?
In France, they have banned the burkini, and the wearing of religious symbols in public institutions. If the event was being held in France and they had banned the wearing of the hijab by the players, would you be supporting this, recognising the hajib as Islamic oppression of women, or denouncing it as suppression of religious freedoms?
I have worked with women from Iran and other middle eastern countries who are educated professional engineers, and they do not consider their wearing of the hijab as any sort of oppression and are in fact proud to wear it. I'm not ready to judge the hijab as a symbol of moral oppression.
Sid, no offense, but comparison of the hijab to the yellow star of David is specious
I disagree, in both cases oppressed groups are forced to wear articles of clothing against their wishes. The Burkini is banned in France as it covers the entire face thus is useful for a criminal to be disguised. They have no issue with the Hijab. I do not have any issue with what people wear if it is not done oppressively. In certain African countries topless for females is normal and I have no problem with it. The women that you say are proud of their Hijab is not a reason to force all women to wear them. I am not alone in viewing the Hijab as a symbol of moral oppression as that is exactly what it is. When someone else inflicts their beliefs no matter how benign in appearance on others it is oppression and therefore morally wrong.
I do not think it is a coincidence that gays and others are routinely executed in Iran just like in Nazi Germany
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Monday, 3rd October, 2016, 05:53 PM.
But FIDE does control the playing hall and surely they will not be so craven as to require women to wear the Hijab while playing!?
Gordon, as a point they already did in the recent past. See the Women's Grand Prix event that was recently held. All the female players had to wear the hajib while playing.
Re: Women will be forced to compete in hijabs at the next world championship in Iran
Sid, no offense, but comparison of the hijab to the yellow star of David is specious. The yellow star was used by the Nazi regime in it's systematic genocide policy to the Jewish people. The hijab is worn in muslin society as a belief that women should dress modestly. Modesty is a relative term and is dependent on society's norms, which change with place and time.
As an example, there are women in Canada who have successfully fought for the right to go topless in public. They consider being forced to wear a top when outside a sign of oppression, as men are allowed to be topless in public. Would you have any issue if the Women's Championship was held in a place banning the players from playing topless?
In France, they have banned the burkini, and the wearing of religious symbols in public institutions. If the event was being held in France and they had banned the wearing of the hijab by the players, would you be supporting this, recognising the hajib as Islamic oppression of women, or denouncing it as suppression of religious freedoms?
I have worked with women from Iran and other middle eastern countries who are educated professional engineers, and they do not consider their wearing of the hijab as any sort of oppression and are in fact proud to wear it. I'm not ready to judge the hijab as a symbol of moral oppression.
I take your point and it is offensive to our way of thinking that the state should dictate the headwear of women anywhere. The issue is the role of FIDE. In the past, as you know very well, they have sited important contests in countries which were hostile to certain groups (e.g. Jews) without any qualms. So much for their motto.
But FIDE does control the playing hall and surely they will not be so craven as to require women to wear the Hijab while playing!?
I wonder what makes you think "FIDE controls the playing hall"?
It seems folly to think any outside organization controls anything at all in Iran... the Ayatolah makes the rules and everyone falls in line.
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