If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Policy / Politique
The fee for tournament organizers advertising on ChessTalk is $20/event or $100/yearly unlimited for the year.
Les frais d'inscription des organisateurs de tournoi sur ChessTalk sont de 20 $/événement ou de 100 $/année illimitée.
You can etransfer to Henry Lam at chesstalkforum at gmail dot com
Transfér à Henry Lam à chesstalkforum@gmail.com
Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
General Guidelines
---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
Some Basics
1. Under Board "Frequently Asked Questions" (FAQs) there are 3 sections dealing with General Forum Usage, User Profile Features, and Reading and Posting Messages. These deal with everything from Avatars to Your Notifications. Most general technical questions are covered there. Here is a link to the FAQs. https://forum.chesstalk.com/help
2. Consider using the SEARCH button if you are looking for information. You may find your question has already been answered in a previous thread.
3. If you've looked for an answer to a question, and not found one, then you should consider asking your question in a new thread. For example, there have already been questions and discussion regarding: how to do chess diagrams (FENs); crosstables that line up properly; and the numerous little “glitches” that every new site will have.
4. Read pinned or sticky threads, like this one, if they look important. This applies especially to newcomers.
5. Read the thread you're posting in before you post. There are a variety of ways to look at a thread. These are covered under “Display Modes”.
6. Thread titles: please provide some details in your thread title. This is useful for a number of reasons. It helps ChessTalk members to quickly skim the threads. It prevents duplication of threads. And so on.
7. Unnecessary thread proliferation (e.g., deliberately creating a new thread that duplicates existing discussion) is discouraged. Look to see if a thread on your topic may have already been started and, if so, consider adding your contribution to the pre-existing thread. However, starting new threads to explore side-issues that are not relevant to the original subject is strongly encouraged. A single thread on the Canadian Open, with hundreds of posts on multiple sub-topics, is no better than a dozen threads on the Open covering only a few topics. Use your good judgment when starting a new thread.
8. If and/or when sub-forums are created, please make sure to create threads in the proper place.
Debate
9. Give an opinion and back it up with a reason. Throwaway comments such as "Game X pwnz because my friend and I think so!" could be considered pointless at best, and inflammatory at worst.
10. Try to give your own opinions, not simply those copied and pasted from reviews or opinions of your friends.
Unacceptable behavior and warnings
11. In registering here at ChessTalk please note that the same or similar rules apply here as applied at the previous Boardhost message board. In particular, the following content is not permitted to appear in any messages:
* Racism
* Hatred
* Harassment
* Adult content
* Obscene material
* Nudity or pornography
* Material that infringes intellectual property or other proprietary rights of any party
* Material the posting of which is tortious or violates a contractual or fiduciary obligation you or we owe to another party
* Piracy, hacking, viruses, worms, or warez
* Spam
* Any illegal content
* unapproved Commercial banner advertisements or revenue-generating links
* Any link to or any images from a site containing any material outlined in these restrictions
* Any material deemed offensive or inappropriate by the Board staff
12. Users are welcome to challenge other points of view and opinions, but should do so respectfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Posts and threads with unacceptable content can be closed or deleted altogether. Furthermore, a range of sanctions are possible - from a simple warning to a temporary or even a permanent banning from ChessTalk.
Helping to Moderate
13. 'Report' links (an exclamation mark inside a triangle) can be found in many places throughout the board. These links allow users to alert the board staff to anything which is offensive, objectionable or illegal. Please consider using this feature if the need arises.
Advice for free
14. You should exercise the same caution with Private Messages as you would with any public posting.
The Hoogeveen Chess Tournament will be held from Saturday 15th October through Saturday 22nd October 2016. The tournament consists of the Hoogeveen Matches, the Hoogeveen Open and two amateur tournaments. All tournaments will take place in the attractive town hall of Hoogeveen. In the chess café, well-known commentators will analyse the games with the audience. The games can also be followed live on this website:
In the Hoogeveen Open, 9 rounds will be played. There is space for approximately 84 players with a minimal rating of 2000. The Hoogeveen Open is an international tournament, and consequently (grand-) master norms can be achieved. There is a total prize fund of € 7,500 with a 1st prize of € 3,000.
The match between Hou and Short should be great fun. She has outplayed him at Corus whereas he edged her out to win Gibraltar. They know each other's styles having teamed up to come third in the team match in China a few years ago.
6-game friendly match
Hou Yifan - Nigel Short
Hoogeveen, Netherlands
16 - 22 October 2016
Rate of play:
90 minutes in 40 moves +
30 minutes all moves +
30 seconds for each move
starting from move 1
Schedule : * CET (UTC/GMT +2)
2016, October 16 14:00 - Game 1
2016, October 17 14:00 - Game 2
2016, October 18 14:00 - Game 3
REST DAY
2016, October 20 14:00 - Game 4
2016, October 21 14:00 - Game 5
2016, October 22 14:00 - Game 6
Side Events by Peter Boel
The 19th Hoogeveen Chess Tournament, which takes place from 17-24 October in the Hoogeveen town hall, includes a great number of attractive side events this year. Various alternative chess variants will be experimented with, there is a simultaneous exhibition by one of the match players, Sopiko Guramishvili, and every day well-known Dutch players will give commentaries on the games in the town hall.
On the day of the opening, Saturday 17 October, there is a chess event at the local McDonalds, just like last year, from 13.00-16.00h. Anyone who wants can play a game of ‘Chess biking’ or ‘Fitness chess’ here. Chess biking means that you are sitting at the board on a hometrainer. You can win the game by giving mate, by time forfeit, or by riding faster than your opponent. Fitness chess is a blitz game with the clock placed at some distance from the board, so that the players have to put on a spurt to finish their move, after which they have to run back to the board again.
On Wednesday 21 October, a Basque Chess tournament will be held from 10.00h. In this chess variant, which originated in the Basque city of San Sebastian, the opponents play on two boards at the same time: one game with white, and one with black. This is a five-round tournament: the players get 25 minutes each for a (double) game, plus 20 seconds extra after each completed move. There is a prize fund of 500 euros, the entry fee is 15 euros (a maximum of 32 participants). First prize is 250 euros. Among the participants will be grandmaster and former Dutch champion Dimitri Reinderman and ‘Mr Chess’, IM Hans Böhm.
On Saturday 24 October, Sopiko Guramishvili will give a simultaneous exhibition from 13.00-16.00h in the centre of Hoogeveen, right after her match versus European Junior Champion Anna-Maja Kazarian. If during the exhibition an opponent loses, he or she can put up the pieces again for another game, or a new opponent can join. There will also be a chess bike, on which participants or onlookers can ‘blow off steam’.
Back in the 70s there was a Dutch tournament called Hoogovens-Beverwijk. Koninklijke Nederlandsche Hoogovens en Staalfabrieken (KNHS) until 1996 or informally, Hoogovens, was a Dutch steel producer founded in 1918.
The way I remembered it was that a hoogoven = huge oven = blast furnace.
Hoogovens became Corus, which later became Tata Steel.
When the Hou Yifan – Short Match came up at Hoogeveen, I thought they were using the retro name for the tournament. Of course, that is quite wrong - I confused the two. Hoogeveen is a perfectly respectable Dutch place name, which has no association with the other except through a similarity in spelling!
Nigel was slightly better through most of the game. The ending was K+R+N and pawns for each. It started to go so slowly that the online kibitzers began to discuss Nigel getting security scanned at the Olympiad and his relations with Tony Miles.
With less than five minutes to go on each clock:
- He was better the whole game but Hou defended incredibly accurately
- After all this I can't believe he is down on time!
- Yeah, neither player wants this on time.
- I wonder if an endgame artist can devise a winning plan for White
- Maybe if they had another 30 minutes or so?
- draw official
- Yifan gained 0.3 Elo point. She wins.
Match, Hoogeveen
Game 1, Oct. 16, 2016
Short, Nigel – Hou Yifan
A07 Reti, King’s Indian Attack
After losing a King’s Indian, Van Foreest didn’t lose his sense of humour and appeared in the pressroom shortly after the game with the book ‘Kotronias vs the King’s Indian’ in his hands, and allowed a photo to be taken.
In today’s game he sacrificed a knight on g7 and got the full point from Sokolov.
In the other game, another draw.
Match, Hoogeveen
Round 2, Oct. 17, 2016
Van Foreest, Jorden – Sokolov, Ivan
C41 Philidor, Improved Hanham Variation
SS: When you became a GM did you decide to pursue chess professionally or were you still studying?
IS: I was studying at the law university. I was awarded the grandmaster title at the Karpov-Kasparov match in Seville, 1987. After receiving the title, I quit studying and devoted myself to chess full time.
SS: How would you get chess material back then?
IS: I try to explain to people how quickly time changes in one’s own personal lifetime. Regular source of information back then were newspaper articles. Daily newspapers would have a chess column in it. The games of the big tournaments were sent to the newspapers by telex. As soon as I would spot these games in the newspapers, I would pick up a pair of scissors, cut the game, and take it along with me because you can understand that if this opportunity was missed it could become quite complicated to get these games. At that time if someone was coming back from tournaments they would bring with them tournament bulletins in hard copy form. If that person gave you the bulletins it would be considered quite a huge favour (smiles). Information was very difficult to get and scarce. All of us had notebooks (stressing on the word notebooks) and you take a pen and write down the important games in it! I remember that once I studied the games of Soviet grandmasters because I was passing by a huge second hand book shop and I spotted some books called Soviet Championships in the 50’s. They were mainly tournament bulletins that had all the games in it. I bought all of them immediately so that I would have material to study at home. It is actually quite funny how much the game has changed now and how information is so freely available.
______
It looked like Short had the game well in hand after Black’s 30th move.
It is not clear as to when you can pedal – it could put off your opponent’s concentration.
There is going to be an attempt at a record blindfold simul with Timur Gareyev on a spin cycle. I am not prepared at this time to tell you the difference between the spin and the exercise bikes.
I have corrected the pairing in Round 4. Hou Yifan was White and Nigel Short was Black.
The results of the four games so far are:
1. Short – Hou Yifan 0.5-0.5
2. Hou Yifan – Short 0.5-0.5
3. Short – Hou Yifan 1-0
4. Hou Yifan – Short 0-1
which seems to me to give
Hou Yifan 1 Nigel Short 3
If I could give an excuse for my inattention, I would blame watching the Trump-Clinton Debate last night, the Blue Jays losing to Cleveland in Game 5 and worrying about the difference between the two bikes that people sit on while playing chess.
I am told by a reliable source that the pronunciation of the town’s name is to rhyme with ‘coq au vin’.
A draw in the Yifan-Short match and the remarkable chain of wins for White goes to five in Sokolov-Van Foreest. The three lost games for Van Foreest were all with the King’s Indian.
- Ivan Sokolov is a great chess teacher he has made many good videos for chess com
- I know we should not go to the past and not compare players from different times but I think Judith would have won against Short say with all respect for Hou who is a good player
- well Judit has a 12-3 score against Nigel
- van foreest's KID is dubious
- he is a good player and not very oldso he can reach the 2700 level maybe
- I don't know why Van Foreest insisted on the KID after it was crushed in the last 2 games
- Van Foreest should have played something more solid then try to win with white tomorrow
- this is just two guys beating the crap out of each other
It happens sometimes: if a player wins a match before time, his attention fades. It happened to Short today, and Hou Yifan struck immediately with an elegant attack. She wasn’t really proud of it, as with accurate play Short wouldn’t have got into trouble. Ivan Sokolov won the other match with a draw. It was hard-fought, but Jorden van Foreest was the one who had been in danger.
After an oversight by Short, Hou Yifan won in the type of attack every white player dreams of in the Ruy Lopez.
27...Nb6
Missing a tempo for the defence – and every tempo counts here. ‘This was a blunder’, Short said. ‘I should have played 27...Kh8.’ Hou Yifan agreed that in that case she wouldn’t have had any attacking chances. ‘So then I would have had to play 28.Rc3.’ It had been a bit of a gamble, because: ‘If I don’t have anything here, then it would have been better not to play Nh4 either. In some way I hoped I could play f2-f4 somewhere, but it didn’t really work.’
28.Qh6?? is not possible after the king move in view of 28...Ng8 29.Qf4 Bf6, and Black wins the knight on h4.
In the other game:
38.Kc3
Here Sokolov didn’t try any further: draw. ‘Especially after Loek van Wely told me this morning that at 3-3 we would have to blitz as well, I thought it was enough.’
At the end of the fifth round of the Hou Yifan – Nigel Short Match, Nigel had won with 3.5-1.5.
It was a six-game match and they played the sixth game, Hou Yifan won and got a few Elo points. Right?
Evidently not.
From Chris Rice on the ECForum:
Interesting footnote to this was that Nigel I believe was trying to ensure that once he had won the match the last game would not be rated. Personally I was completely unaware of regulation 6.5 which states "Where a match is over a specific number of games, those played after one player has won shall not be rated.". Guess most of us have never played a FIDE rated match so would be unaware of such a rule and you wonder how many arbiters and organisers are.
An arbiter for such a match should be aware of the rule and in general would be, I think.
You can apply to FIDE for a derogation, provided that you do so beforehand and make it clear to the players.
The Regulations for the 2015 British Knockout Championship, and for the forthcoming 2016 Championship, both state:
"All six games of the Final are to be played, even if the outcome is already decided. Permission from FIDE for any dead games to be FIDE rated will be sought."
Peter Doggers: It's not strange that few people have heard about the regulation, as it's extremely rare that a game is played after a match has been finished. This doesn't occur in World Championships or World Cups. The point of view of the organizers is understandable. They want six competitive games, but the rule has its logic as well.
To avoid this situation, it might be an idea to change the format next year, with e.g. a two-game rapid match on the final day in case the match has been decided. "I've got no problem with that," said Short. "But you can't just ignore regulations just for the hell of it. There's a reason why they are there."
Last edited by Wayne Komer; Sunday, 23rd October, 2016, 10:55 PM.
Do you rate a meaningless last game in a match already won or not? Peter Long takes up the question in Rules? What Rules? In the Malay Mail (and ChessBase):
Short had told me before his match that he expected it to be very difficult but it certainly did not seem that way as he cleverly used his experience to blunt Hou's play and by the time he drew his fifth round game, the match was already won on the back of two fine wins.
But that's where the controversy that eventually followed began with a requirement to play the sixth and meaningless game.
In most matches, once won, it is usually halted and if there is a requirement to continue play for some reason i.e. because tickets were sold, then it switches to exhibition mode and often, rapid games are played instead.
But today's chess is all about ratings and that is calculated based on a formula which shows the likely outcome and after comparing that to the actual result, the rating change is given.
Winning two games against an opponent with a similar rating means a big gain for Short and so he checked what the FIDE rating regulations were to confirm if indeed he had to take it seriously. The FIDE Rating Regulations read in paragraph 6.5 that:
“Where a match is over a specific number of games, those played after one player has won shall not be rated.”
To be sure, Short checked with Tournament Director Loek van Wely, who as a former Netherlands No. 1, has vast experience in top-level chess. After some email exchanges and a talk over breakfast, van Wely said he would refer it to the arbiters at a meeting that same morning for a decision.
Worst was to follow as Short went into the sixth game with no reply from van Wely despite repeatedly asking. Hou, meanwhile, was blissfully unaware of what was going on but soon there was more for Short to be upset about as one arbiter felt it appropriate to tell Short, during actual play, that he was a chicken!
Hou salvaged some pride with a fine win to reduce the final score to just 3.5-2.5 in Short's favour. Without taking anything away from the excellent play of the Women's World Champion in that game, it is hard to believe that the Englishman was as focused as he normally would have been.
The arbiters had illegally decided to ignore this FIDE regulation by arguing there was a precedent two years ago when the organisers had faced this exact same issue and had successfully ignored it! It is clear that they have submitted all games for ratings but very sensibly FIDE has rejected it.
(Here follows some Nigel Short emails and the tournament director’s reply.)
________
A last word from Nigel in an email today:
I only became aware of this regulation last Friday, in casual conversation with an arbiter. Once I was aware of it, it was clear that the regulation had to be applied. I informed the Tournament Director and, well...the rest is a long and sad story. I bitterly resent those who have taken the opportunity to kick me in the teeth for no reason at all.
Tweet
Comment