If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Policy / Politique
The fee for tournament organizers advertising on ChessTalk is $20/event or $100/yearly unlimited for the year.
Les frais d'inscription des organisateurs de tournoi sur ChessTalk sont de 20 $/événement ou de 100 $/année illimitée.
You can etransfer to Henry Lam at chesstalkforum at gmail dot com
Transfér à Henry Lam à chesstalkforum@gmail.com
Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
General Guidelines
---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
Some Basics
1. Under Board "Frequently Asked Questions" (FAQs) there are 3 sections dealing with General Forum Usage, User Profile Features, and Reading and Posting Messages. These deal with everything from Avatars to Your Notifications. Most general technical questions are covered there. Here is a link to the FAQs. https://forum.chesstalk.com/help
2. Consider using the SEARCH button if you are looking for information. You may find your question has already been answered in a previous thread.
3. If you've looked for an answer to a question, and not found one, then you should consider asking your question in a new thread. For example, there have already been questions and discussion regarding: how to do chess diagrams (FENs); crosstables that line up properly; and the numerous little “glitches” that every new site will have.
4. Read pinned or sticky threads, like this one, if they look important. This applies especially to newcomers.
5. Read the thread you're posting in before you post. There are a variety of ways to look at a thread. These are covered under “Display Modes”.
6. Thread titles: please provide some details in your thread title. This is useful for a number of reasons. It helps ChessTalk members to quickly skim the threads. It prevents duplication of threads. And so on.
7. Unnecessary thread proliferation (e.g., deliberately creating a new thread that duplicates existing discussion) is discouraged. Look to see if a thread on your topic may have already been started and, if so, consider adding your contribution to the pre-existing thread. However, starting new threads to explore side-issues that are not relevant to the original subject is strongly encouraged. A single thread on the Canadian Open, with hundreds of posts on multiple sub-topics, is no better than a dozen threads on the Open covering only a few topics. Use your good judgment when starting a new thread.
8. If and/or when sub-forums are created, please make sure to create threads in the proper place.
Debate
9. Give an opinion and back it up with a reason. Throwaway comments such as "Game X pwnz because my friend and I think so!" could be considered pointless at best, and inflammatory at worst.
10. Try to give your own opinions, not simply those copied and pasted from reviews or opinions of your friends.
Unacceptable behavior and warnings
11. In registering here at ChessTalk please note that the same or similar rules apply here as applied at the previous Boardhost message board. In particular, the following content is not permitted to appear in any messages:
* Racism
* Hatred
* Harassment
* Adult content
* Obscene material
* Nudity or pornography
* Material that infringes intellectual property or other proprietary rights of any party
* Material the posting of which is tortious or violates a contractual or fiduciary obligation you or we owe to another party
* Piracy, hacking, viruses, worms, or warez
* Spam
* Any illegal content
* unapproved Commercial banner advertisements or revenue-generating links
* Any link to or any images from a site containing any material outlined in these restrictions
* Any material deemed offensive or inappropriate by the Board staff
12. Users are welcome to challenge other points of view and opinions, but should do so respectfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Posts and threads with unacceptable content can be closed or deleted altogether. Furthermore, a range of sanctions are possible - from a simple warning to a temporary or even a permanent banning from ChessTalk.
Helping to Moderate
13. 'Report' links (an exclamation mark inside a triangle) can be found in many places throughout the board. These links allow users to alert the board staff to anything which is offensive, objectionable or illegal. Please consider using this feature if the need arises.
Advice for free
14. You should exercise the same caution with Private Messages as you would with any public posting.
Just saw tonight on the news that a Canadian man is suing to have the nickname of the Cleveland Indians changed.
My question to anyone on chesstalk is, has there even been a movement, legally or otherwise, to change the names of certain chess openings to be more *politically correct* nowadays? I'm thinking of, e.g. the 'Nimzo-Indian Defence', 'King's Indian Defence', etc.
On a seperate issue, I understand that in different countries, e.g. Russia, chess openings can have different names than are used in other parts of the world.
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
"Moheshchunder [Bannerjee], like other Indian players of the time, favoured fianchettoed openings, trying to control the center with long-distance pieces rather than occupying it with the pawns. Possibly these ideas germinated in an environment of chess rules that did not permit the initial two-square move for pawns. The theory behind these openings were developed in recorded chess history much later, but [John] Cochrane introduced the term Indian defence for this class of openings, which has now come to cover the Nimzo-Indian and many other popular openings. Fianchettoes appear to have been a favourite style in Indian chess variants, and the Queen's Indian defence was also a frequent opening for Mir Sultan Khan, who visited England for five years and won the British Chess Championship in 1929, 1932 and 1933."
So... no connection with the early mis-identification of First Nations peoples as Indians.
Note: I have added two name clarifications in square brackets.
That's interesting. I seem to recall reading somewhere defences were called "Indian" because they seemed so unorthodox to chess theoreticians in those early days. Speaking of orthodoxy, Tarrasch jokingly labelled typical Queen's Gambit Declined Defences as the "Orthodox" QGD. I was never sure if he was referring to the Classical Variation in particular, or just QGD defences with ...Be7 & without an early ...c5 (like in the Tarrasch QG).
Anyway, I could still see some politically correct modern day person get their dander up about the names of certain chess openings, regardless of the original reasoning behind the name, and some liberal judge actually agreeing with them.
Last edited by Kevin Pacey; Sunday, 16th October, 2016, 12:43 AM.
Reason: Adding content
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
I did think of one opening name which clearly needs to be slightly modified: 'Scotch Opening' should really be 'Scottish Opening' instead. Scots would insist! I think New In Chess was doing this, but most sources and authorities still use 'Scotch'. This refers to: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4. This line was used by a group of Scottish players from Edinburgh in a correspondence game with a group of English players from London, in the mid-1800s, and probably long before that, but was not named until then.
'Scotch' more properly refers to the whisky; its use is seen as quite derogatory by many Scots when used to describe their nation or nationality.
Another one we could consider modifying is 'Yugoslav Attack' in the Sicilian Dragon, where White castles long against Black's short castling. Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore as a nation, so should the name 'Yugoslav Attack' still be used, or instead be modified to 'Serbian Attack', or 'Croatian Attack'? The line was popularized in the 1950s in the former Yugoslavia, as I understand it. Perhaps it can remain as is, for a testament to that era. :)
Interesting thread! :)
'Scotch' more properly refers to the whisky; its use is seen as quite derogatory by many Scots when used to describe their nation or nationality.
Actually there is no such thing as "Scotch Whiskey". It is "Scotch Whisky" and you will get sued if you try to call any distilled liquor "Whisky" if it is not made in Scotland. You will not be allowed to sell any malt liquor produced in Scotland as "Whiskey" either. The Scots make "Whisky" and everyone else makes "Whiskey".
I did think of one opening name which clearly needs to be slightly modified: 'Scotch Opening' should really be 'Scottish Opening' instead. Scots would insist! I think New In Chess was doing this, but most sources and authorities still use 'Scotch'. This refers to: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4. This line was used by a group of Scottish players from Edinburgh in a correspondence game with a group of English players from London, in the mid-1800s, and probably long before that, but was not named until then.
'Scotch' more properly refers to the whisky; its use is seen as quite derogatory by many Scots when used to describe their nation or nationality.
Another one we could consider modifying is 'Yugoslav Attack' in the Sicilian Dragon, where White castles long against Black's short castling. Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore as a nation, so should the name 'Yugoslav Attack' still be used, or instead be modified to 'Serbian Attack', or 'Croatian Attack'? The line was popularized in the 1950s in the former Yugoslavia, as I understand it. Perhaps it can remain as is, for a testament to that era. :)
Perhaps the opening *was* named after the drink ...
There is a small, upstate New York town of Fishkill.
Back in September of 1996, all was peaceful until the animal rights group, PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, took issue with the town's centuries-old name.
PETA wanted the town to change its name, claiming it suggests cruelty to, well, fish.
"It seems like a light-hearted subject at first. But the real issue behind the name of Fishkill is the violent imagery," PETA spokeswoman Anne Sullivan said.
If the town of Fishkill changes its name, then what about the other towns in New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey with the stem -kill.
Most of us are aware of Berlin, Ontario changing its name during WW1 to a more politically correct name of Kitchener. Then we have the case of Swastika, Ontario.
"Buddhists regarded it as a chakra or wheel of the law; the Tibetans called it Yun-drun or path of life.In 1904, Jim and Bill Dusty, two rugged freelance prospectors, took a contract from a group of investors to locate a silver mine in an area known to hold gold. They found no silver but in 1907 they staked out the Swastika Gold Mine. In 1908, the town was incorporated as Swastika. The Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway established a watering station near the town and miners and prospectors flooded into the area. In 1909 a new mine, called Lucky Cross (after the good luck symbol of the swastika), adjacent to the T&NO railway tracks began producing gold. By 1911, the town consisted of hotels, stores and schools. The little town flourished.
In 1935, the raise of Nazism in Germany created a major problem for the few hundred people of Swastika. As war loomed and then exploded in Europe the Ontario government decided that German sounding names should not exist in Ontario, regardless of the origins of the names or the peoples of the towns or area. Berlin, Ontario was changed to Kitchener [in a 1916 referendum - allegedly "rigged" according to some sources] and Swastika was changed to Winston. While the name change stuck in Kitchener, the townsfolk of Swastika were not amused. They tore down the Winston sign and replaced it with a restored Swastika sign (good for them!) and another sign which read, “To hell with Hitler, we came up with our name first”
If you are looking for Swastika, Ontario, just go north on Highway 11 from North Bay to Highway 66. Turn right towards Kirkland lake and look for the sign of good luck."
"With the outbreak of the First World War, a number of towns that were named for the German capital were hurriedly rechristened. The town of Genevra, California was originally named Berlin. But after the sinking of the Lusitania and America’s subsequent entry into the First World War, anti-German hysteria gripped the nation and residents of the community gladly renamed it. Similarly, Berlin, Iowa became Lincoln, while Berlin, Michigan would be called Marne after the site of the famous 1914 battle. The town of Kitchener, Ontario is named for the famed British field marshal Lord Horatio Herbert Kitchener. But the city of 200,000, which is located about 100 miles west of Toronto, was originally settled by German immigrants to Canada in the mid-19th Century. Decades later when Canada entered the Great War, citizens from the surrounding Wellington County mounted a campaign to bully Berlin’s largely pacifist Mennonite population into changing the town’s name to something more palatable. A rigged referendum in May of 1916 gave regional officials a free hand to dub the town Kitchener, after the revered late British lord. Patriotic mobs also stormed Berlin’s town square and ripped down a historic bust of Germany’s Kaiser Wilhelm I for good measure. The city has remained Kitchener ever since. [Berlin NH kept its name].
Too Many Germantowns
Several American communities that shared the name Germantown were also renamed during the First World War. Schroeder, Texas was called Germantown until 1918. A Germantown in Nebraska became Garland, while one in Indiana was retitled in honour the American general Pershing. Authorities in Germantown, Tennessee reverted to the Indian name Nashoba. However, townsfolk went back to Germantown following the Armistice. Interestingly, Germantown, Pennsylvania retained its name, likely out of respect for the famous Revolutionary War battle of 1777 in which American patriots defeated a combined force of British redcoats and (yes even) Hessian mercenaries from what would later be Germany.
Down Under
This Great War-era practice of renaming German-sounding towns wasn’t just a North American phenomenon. More than 90 communities throughout Australia changed their names during the First World War amid widespread hostility to all things Teutonic. Three different towns with the name Bismarck were changed along with one small city named Berlin. Nine other locales with the word “German” somewhere in the name were also retitled. For example: Germantown, German Gardens or German Mountain were all given more English or Australian sounding names. Even settlements named for cities such as Hamburg or Heidelberg weren’t safe, nor were locations that sounded even vaguely Germanic. Consider places like Neudorf, Cape Bauer and Gottlieb’s Well. All of those names had to go. Kaiserstuhl became Mount Kitchener and the towns of Rhine River North and South became Somme and Marne respectively, named after the battles on the Western Front. Similarly, another settlement with Rhine in its name became Cambrai."
Getting back to chess, I wonder if the opening names of the 'Leningrad Dutch' and the 'Leningrad Variation' of the Nimzo-Indian are going to be widely disused at some point ahead. Perhaps that's best left to the discretion of Russian [chess] authorities.
Last edited by Kevin Pacey; Sunday, 16th October, 2016, 09:23 PM.
Reason: Adding content
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
I am still waiting for a movement to change the names of "Indiana" and "Indianapolis" to something more politically correct. :-) I was thinking of "Hoosierana" and "Hoosierapolis", for example.
Tweet
Comment