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You have to read the whole section of the act in order to understand how the rules apply. My reading is that they are referring to voting members since the only context provided for sharing that information is in the case of a vote to which they have been given notice.
Just look at this:
Use of information or list by members
(7) A member or a member’s personal representative who obtains a list of members or information from a register of members under this section shall not use the list or information except in connection with
(a) an effort to influence the voting of members;
(b) requisitioning a meeting of members; or
(c) any other matter relating to the affairs of the corporation.
The act clearly writes where is a member and when a member contacts a voting member. I don't see anything between lines.
Vlad, can you put here the clause in the Act that specifies penalty to the corporation for putting the list of voting members in the public domain?
If there is such a penalty, then:
- the CFC has been in violation of the Act for 3 years now according to Hugh Brodie, for (1) publishing a list of voting members on its web site and (2) the list is not even accurate.
- if someone wanted to exact the law on the CFC, all they would have to do is notify the proper government department of this situation. Hugh's posting to start off this thread is evidence that the list has been on the web site for 3 years.
If there is no such penalty, then:
- the CFC can publish the up to date list with impunity, and the only penalties are to members who use that information in any way except those purposes described in the Act.
There was a list posted of CFC Governors prior to the CFC becoming NFP compliant. This list has been removed.
Vlad, can you put here the clause in the Act that specifies penalty to the corporation for putting the list of voting members in the public domain?
If there is such a penalty, then:
- the CFC has been in violation of the Act for 3 years now according to Hugh Brodie, for (1) publishing a list of voting members on its web site and (2) the list is not even accurate.
- if someone wanted to exact the law on the CFC, all they would have to do is notify the proper government department of this situation. Hugh's posting to start off this thread is evidence that the list has been on the web site for 3 years.
If there is no such penalty, then:
- the CFC can publish the up to date list with impunity, and the only penalties are to members who use that information in any way except those purposes described in the Act.
Given that what has been on the web is the list of governors which was under a different law than the one that is in place it is unlikely that the continued posting of a historical record of the last governors would violate this law which is somewhat specific to the list of current voting members.
I am working on getting this information posted on the website. It's essentially the same process as we had before the NFP act (with the exception that Past President has been replaced by Director at large).
Hi Fred:
A question about the nature of CFC as a "Federation" since bringing itself under the NFPCA:
Power of CFC re VM's sent by Provinces/Territories
My recollection is that the provinces/territories elect/appoint their VM's, whom they then direct to come to the CFC VM's Council, and work for CFC, but also represent the provincial/territorial interests.
The only power CFC had about these representatives of the provinces/territories, was accepting them. But CFC had the power to reject a proposed VM on any technical grounds of non-qualification (For example, I remember once when a province sent as a VM someone who was NOT a CFC member! CFC rejected that person joining the VM Council, and advised the Province that there was a vacancy for them to still fill).
Is the power dynamic still the same now re VM's sent by the provinces/territories?
Board of Directors (CFC Executive Officers) Election
The VM's elect their board of directors.
I assume this is still a confidential vote? And so there is no listing of VM names and who they voted for in the AGM minutes (this is unlike motion votes, where in the past, the AGM minutes had to list the names of all VM's voting on a motion, and how they voted - is this still the Secretary's practice in the AGM minutes?)?
If so, do the AGM minutes show the number of votes cast for each nominee? And does it show the no. of registered voters who did not cast a ballot re a particular vote?
Fred addressed 1-3. My take is that the answer to 1-3 is yes.
4. I don't know. I suspect that it would depend on the provincial legislation that governs each provincial chess association.
5. You are a lawyer. I am not. You will have to make that judgement for yourself and live with the consequences if you are incorrect.
I don't think that it is a good idea to try to shame inactive voting members. In the old days some people were governors because they got the CFC bulletin sent to them by first class mail instead of bulk and didn't participate any further in the affairs of the CFC.
The arguments for having access to the voting members that might have been relevant when we had governors are no longer relevant. Times and the relevant laws have changed. The voting members who wish to make themselves available to the non-voting members can still do so. My interpretation of the law is that I cannot do so myself without the written permission of each and every person whose name is being revealed.
Hi Vlad:
Thanks.
And I have no ambition to be the person assembling the "unofficial list of VM's" and going public with it. Whoever that brave/naive CFC member (or member of the public) might be though, I agree with you that getting a legal opinion on "disclosing" would be a good precautionary step. :) . None of us need to add to our agendas in life, defending against some legal charge! :)
A question about the nature of CFC as a "Federation" since bringing itself under the NFPCA:
Power of CFC re VM's sent by Provinces/Territories
My recollection is that the provinces/territories elect/appoint their VM's, whom they then direct to come to the CFC VM's Council, and work for CFC, but also represent the provincial/territorial interests.
Actually they are supposed to vote their conscience and in the best interests of the CFC and not the best interest of their region.
The only power CFC had about these representatives of the provinces/territories, was accepting them. But CFC had the power to reject a proposed VM on any technical grounds of non-qualification (For example, I remember once when a province sent as a VM someone who was NOT a CFC member! CFC rejected that person joining the VM Council, and advised the Province that there was a vacancy for them to still fill).
You do have to be a member (class B non voting member, that is). The directors do have the right to reject someone but typically will not aside from issues of not being a CFC non-voting member. Toxic individuals can usually be isolated without needing to reject their candidacy.
Is the power dynamic still the same now re VM's sent by the provinces/territories?
Board of Directors (CFC Executive Officers) Election
The VM's elect their board of directors.
I assume this is still a confidential vote? And so there is no listing of VM names and who they voted for in the AGM minutes (this is unlike motion votes, where in the past, the AGM minutes had to list the names of all VM's voting on a motion, and how they voted - is this still the Secretary's practice in the AGM minutes?)?
If so, do the AGM minutes show the number of votes cast for each nominee? And does it show the no. of registered voters who did not cast a ballot re a particular vote?
Bob A (Former VM)
The number of votes is kept track of in elections. Who voted for which candidate is not though I believe the secretary does have access to that information.
Given that what has been on the web is the list of governors which was under a different law than the one that is in place it is unlikely that the continued posting of a historical record of the last governors would violate this law which is somewhat specific to the list of current voting members.
Ah, but there lies the problem, because unless I'm mistaken, it wasn't posted with the notice "This is historical data, no longer relevant". It was posted as being the current list of voting members. At least that's the impression one gets from Hugh Brodie's post. And because of that, penalties may apply if they are stated in the Act. Which again, no one including yourself has confirmed nor denied whether any penalty is in the Act for the corporation.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Ah, but there lies the problem, because unless I'm mistaken, it wasn't posted with the notice "This is historical data, no longer relevant". It was posted as being the current list of voting members.
You should try to double check what you write.
Even web pages are gone, they sometimes can be accessed at archive.org.
As per Oct 3, 2016 image, the list was called "2013-14 CFC Governors (62+4 Vacancies)..." https://web.archive.org/web/20161007...governors-page
Now you can start discussing if the CFC needed to put it down immediately after moving to a new NFP status.
Ah, but there lies the problem, because unless I'm mistaken, it wasn't posted with the notice "This is historical data, no longer relevant". It was posted as being the current list of voting members. At least that's the impression one gets from Hugh Brodie's post. And because of that, penalties may apply if they are stated in the Act. Which again, no one including yourself has confirmed nor denied whether any penalty is in the Act for the corporation.
I believe it said governors and not voting members. Since there were no governors after the NFP Act continuation, it was clearly historical information. Judging from some of the names it was likely from about a year or more before the NFP act continuation. It was clearly posted before there was a penalty.
IANAL (I am not a lawyer). I see no penalty in the act for the corporation which can obviously not be incarcerated in prison for six months since it is a legal entity and not a physical one. The only person liable for the penalty appears to be the voting member who asks for a list of members and then uses it for some purpose other than the one for which he has a right to use the information for which is to contact voting members in order to influence or persuade them about a specific vote of the voting members.
There are other provisions elsewhere which probably allow aggregating the voting members information in an email or mailing without revealing contact information.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Wednesday, 7th December, 2016, 04:24 PM.
How would you propose to replace that revenue, Neil ?
Why replace it, Fred?
Those entities who are associated with the CFC, such as the EOCA et. al, would keep most of the membership money. The associations would sell the memberships, bank the membership money, keep the membership money that they generate within their association where their CFC members are ... to the benefit of those members!
So with perhaps a slight % of the membership dues remittance (for FIDE stuff?) and with the complete revenue generated by rating fees is what the CFC would run on. The Chess Federation of Canada would be completely streamlined.
The associations would now have the much needed means to promote CFC branded chess ... that's a huge incentive to grow competitive chess in Canada ... plow it back into the soil, so to speak. Of course there would be criteria set by the CFC for the associations to operate by.
Governors/voting members would be shouldered by the associations from which they are voted ... provincial CFC associations would operate as usual with monies coming up from within their jurisdiction accountable to the associations there within.
The CFC would set national policy and continue as usual with its rating system(s).
Radical stuff!
:)
Last edited by Neil Frarey; Friday, 9th December, 2016, 01:13 AM.
Those entities who are associated with the CFC, such as the EOCA et. al, would keep most of the membership money. The associations would sell the memberships, bank the membership money, keep the membership money that they generate within their association where their CFC members are ... to the benefit of those members!
So with perhaps a slight % of the membership dues remittance (for FIDE stuff?) and with the complete revenue generated by rating fees is what the CFC would run on. The Chess Federation of Canada would be completely streamlined.
The associations would now have the much needed means to promote CFC branded chess ... that's a huge incentive to grow competitive chess in Canada ... plow it back into the soil, so to speak. Of course there would be criteria set by the CFC for the associations to operate by.
Governors/voting members would be shouldered by the associations from which they are voted ... provincial CFC associations would operate as usual with monies coming up from within their jurisdiction accountable to the associations there within.
The CFC would set national policy and continue as usual with its rating system(s).
Radical stuff!
:)
Interesting ideas, Neil. The financial statements for 2015/16 are available on-line and you could put forward a potential budget. Membership revenue accounted for $44,700 (after deducting life memberships) in 2015/16
With membership revenue essentially being eliminated, you would either have a part-time employee or contract the work off to another organization. As well you might have to institute some kind of user fee for the Youth events (CYCC, WYCC, WCCC, etc) as there is no income stream for staff time on these arrangements.
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