Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

[Lee Hendon]

Just wondering what people in lower sections think of winning trophies

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

Is there any other sport/activity that rewards "weaker" participants with awards that are close in value to those which the "stronger" players win? Do minor-league players get paid more than a fraction of what major-league players get?

Tournaments should either be one section, or one "Open" section with other sections. There would be cash prizes only by placing 1st through "Nth" places (in the one, or Open section). Trophies or other awards would be given as class prizes, or for placing (1st through "Nth") in a lower section.

Why reward mediocrity?

[Peter McKillop]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

Is there any other sport/activity that rewards "weaker" participants with awards that are close in value to those which the "stronger" players win? Do minor-league players get paid more than a fraction of what major-league players get?

Tournaments should either be one section, or one "Open" section with other sections. There would be cash prizes only by placing 1st through "Nth" places (in the one, or Open section). Trophies or other awards would be given as class prizes, or for placing (1st through "Nth") in a lower section.

Why reward mediocrity?

Hugh, are minor-league players expected to give up part of their salaries to support the major-league players? If you were to talk to the organizers of some of these big swiss tournaments (I'm referring to tournaments like the World Open) I suspect they'd tell you that paying significant class prizes is simply the proven business model for the huge flashy tournaments they wish to run. They don't have patrons or sponsors in sufficient numbers and must rely on the entry fees of class players in order to have an open section prize structure that will attract lots of titled players and make their tournaments into big events. What would become of the World Open if it was run as a Guelph-style pro-am? In any event, someone like you knows all of the above inside out, so why are you grousing about class players and their prizes?

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

A few more comments....

If you have trophy-only sections, you can charge much lower entry fees for them - maybe $20 or $30 - while charging whatever the market will bear for an Open section. The 2016 World had 222 players in the Open section - each paying about $300+, for about $60k in prizes. But when a U1600 player wins his section and wins almost twice as much as each of the co-winners of the Open section, it gets ridiculous. Of course - if the prizes are offered, players will come. But sandbagging is always a problem - eliminated when you only have an Open section which only gives out cash place prizes.

Cappelle la Grande is an annual tournament held in France. Last year there was an entry fee of 50 euros (about $70); one section; place prizes down to 40th place, plus one woman and one senior prize. 538 entries.
The Gibraltar tournament has class sections with cash prizes - but they are a fraction of what the Open section offers. 120 pounds to enter the Open; 50 pounds for the Class events.
Tata Steel will attract 2,000 players to three "Amateur" events (one is already sold out with 670 players) - 20 euros for 3 days, or 50 euros for 9 days. Each event has three prizes donated by New in Chess (not necessarily cash!).

[Brad Thomson]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

Tournaments should either be one section, or one "Open" section with other sections. There would be cash prizes only by placing 1st through "Nth" places (in the one, or Open section).

I have always agreed with this.

Cash in Open sections of events, limited value prizes but no money in rating-classification sections, just like golf and net prizes where one's handicap is subtracted from one's score..

[Lee Hendon]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

Hugh, are minor-league players expected to give up part of their salaries to support the major-league players? If you were to talk to the organizers of some of these big swiss tournaments (I'm referring to tournaments like the World Open) I suspect they'd tell you that paying significant class prizes is simply the proven business model for the huge flashy tournaments they wish to run. They don't have patrons or sponsors in sufficient numbers and must rely on the entry fees of class players in order to have an open section prize structure that will attract lots of titled players and make their tournaments into big events. What would become of the World Open if it was run as a Guelph-style pro-am? In any event, someone like you knows all of the above inside out, so why are you grousing about class players and their prizes?

Was looking at the numbers for the Guelph Fall Pro Am Entry fees were $60 x 18 Pro and $40 x 80 Under Sections, $1080 was returned as prizes to the open section that still leaves $3200 - expense for the lower rated sections you can't tell me there is not room for cash prizes!

[Chris White]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

I would be very happy if I played in a tournament with trophies for lower sections. I've never won a trophy but have won $30 a few times. Would rather have a trophy.

[Lee Hendon]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

I would be very happy if I played in a tournament with trophies for lower sections. I've never won a trophy but have won $30 a few times. Would rather have a trophy.

Its not that winning trophies is good or bad its a lot of players do not have a the choice of even winning entry fees or cash with graduated % something that can help subsidize the cost, kind of like the up coming FIDE Womens in Iran

[Adam Cormier]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

Better than a participation ribbon.

[John Brown]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

I never liked Class Prizes. I always wanted to see Open events with a $1000-2000 for first and the next 20 players win a prize. That way the top 20 are the winners. But at least everyone has a chance to be in the top 20 and they pay to play for those prizes.

I also feel that if you are going to have class prizes other than trophies then give out less money and more prizes ie First gets 4 times entry, Second gets 3 times, Third gets 2 times,
fourth 1 times, 5th -10th 1/2 entry so if we pay $60 then the winner gets $240. Everyone likes to be a winner but why do they need to get mega bucks in a class prize.
This way it will encourage people to play as they still have a chance at 1-10 prizes instead of just 1-3.

[Kerry Liles]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

I would be very happy if I played in a tournament with trophies for lower sections. I've never won a trophy but have won $30 a few times. Would rather have a trophy.

Trophies might be ok for little kids but one idea I don't think I have seen is refunding entry fee (effectively a $ prize) for everyone in a class section that scores above X (75% or something like that?) I would personally find that a nice gesture - scoring high enough to win my entry fee back (better than a trophy or a ribbon or nothing at all)

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

Was looking at the numbers for the Guelph Fall Pro Am Entry fees were $60 x 18 Pro and $40 x 80 Under Sections, $1080 was returned as prizes to the open section that still leaves $3200 - expense for the lower rated sections you can't tell me there is not room for cash prizes!

Why not to try organize several tournaments in a row and see how long you're willing to do that.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

I never liked Class Prizes. I always wanted to see Open events with a $1000-2000 for first and the next 20 players win a prize. That way the top 20 are the winners. But at least everyone has a chance to be in the top 20 and they pay to play for those prizes.

The format does not work well with a small number of rounds. You still want to have a decent game - not to crush or be crushed by opponent.

[John Brown]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

The format does not work well with a small number of rounds. You still want to have a decent game - not to crush or be crushed by opponent.

The idea is to increase participation not win games.

[Peter McKillop]

Re: Prizes other then trophies for lower rated sections

Trophies might be ok for little kids but one idea I don't think I have seen is refunding entry fee (effectively a $ prize) for everyone in a class section that scores above X (75% or something like that?) I would personally find that a nice gesture - scoring high enough to win my entry fee back (better than a trophy or a ribbon or nothing at all)

I agree with you, Kerry. And I like your idea about the entry fees. Chris White said he'd rather have a trophy than $30. I'd rather have the money and buy a book. Also, I like Tom O'Donnell's idea about structuring entry fees and sections in a manner similar to poker tournaments. When you get right down to it, the amount of money available to class players in 99% of Canadian tournaments is inconsequential. Really, we (including me) are debating a non-issue.