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The vote may be "cast" by the FIDE Representative at the FIDE Election Meeting, but is the actual decision his alone?
I recollect the last time I was involved, it was decided that the majority vote of the Officers (Now Bd. of Directors?) directed the FIDE rep how to vote, no? Is this still unclear at the top of CFC?
The vote may be "cast" by the FIDE Representative at the FIDE Election Meeting, but is the actual decision his alone?
I recollect the last time I was involved, it was decided that the majority vote of the Officers (Now Bd. of Directors?) directed the FIDE rep how to vote, no? Is this still unclear at the top of CFC?
Bob A
Hi Bob,
The CFC Pres has offered, in this thread, some basis for voting for Mr Makropoulos - some criterea which could be open for disagreement. The Pres has said .......
"Mr. Makropoulos offers some continuity....."
and in view of the odor left behind by the outgoing FIDE inner circle,
'continuity' would not be a desirable quality. Many would say a 'clean sweep' is what is needed.
Therefore, I agree Bob, this matter needs to be discussed by as many knowledgable chess supporters as Canada can muster.
The vote may be "cast" by the FIDE Representative at the FIDE Election Meeting, but is the actual decision his alone?
I recollect the last time I was involved, it was decided that the majority vote of the Officers (Now Bd. of Directors?) directed the FIDE rep how to vote, no? Is this still unclear at the top of CFC?
Bob A
Technically we wouldn't know if he voted differently from what the executive asked him to vote since it is a blind ballot but Hal has said in the past he would follow the executive lead and Hal's opinion will have a big influence on our ultimate vote.
Nominations do not necessarily obligate the CFC to vote for someone but there was a vote before Mr. Dvorkovitch and Mr. Short stepped up and the board decided to support Mr. Makropoulos over Mr. Ilyumzhinov.. As long as he doesn't wind up on some U.S. Treasury sanctions list Mr. Dvorkovitch appears to be an impressive candidate. Mr. Makropoulos offers some continuity and has done a good job in light of the Ilyumzhinov situation with U.S. Treasury department. Mr. Short would have some explaining to do before being seriously considered as a candidate.
Mr. Makropoulos is not likely to want the job for an extended period of time.
Nominating someone for FIDE president is the prerogative of national federation presidents.
Hi Vlad,
To say that the nomination was made before the two freshest bids came in, fine. I suppose between Ilyumzhinov and Makropoulos... whatever. Lets buy that for the moment.
But as someone mentioned below, continuity smells here. Ilyumzhinov was corrupt and a terrible deal for a long time, and the US treasury sanctions are just the latest kick. Are we buying into Makro being an angel? Absurd!
You say Makro is not likely to want the job for an extended period of time. Based on what? He's been VP under Ilyumzhinov for what, 2 decades? I don't think he'd know what a different job would even entail.
The Ilyumzhinov era is tainted with rampant bribery, false promises, misuse of monies, questionable relocation of resources, absurd fees, etc... and Makro provides this type of "continuity". Do we honestly feel this is the best bid, or are we somehow selling ourselves?
Dvorkovitch does seem to have an interesting ticket and group of people with some pedigree. With the bits that I've read on all candidates, both Makropoulos and Dvorkovitch seem to have some.... untold stories... back-room interests, etc...
Still seems like a better bet than Kasparov, Karpov before him, and the others than have recently ran against the incumbents. I didn't care for Ilyumzhinov but I would be very skeptical of placing someone like Karpov or Kasparov there, whereas lots of their supporters just wanted forceful change, which in my opinion would have been a negative change.
But this looks like a great opportunity with fresh, not seemingly as self-absorbed candidates to start fresh. There's nothing fresh about the Makro bid.
I also listened to the Nigel Short interview. Personally I've enjoyed some of his ... colourful articles as a columnist and find it hard to stomach him as a FIDE president. Chess ambassador or chess tourist though, he's actually traveled across the world, met all the little people, and might actually be in touch with reality of what's happening in the chess globe, compared to either Makropoulos or Dvorkovitch.
Honestly, it'd be great to see what CFC is discussing.
- do we like another candidate now that 2 others stepped forward?
- why do we like Makropoulos bid?
- are the others worth considering?
- why, or why not?
- which bid or candidate provides the best outcome to the world? Or to Americas if we're playing zones? Or to Canada if we're self-centered?
- list the pros and cons of Canadian involvement with each candidate
Personally I'd be sad and disappointed to see Canada vote for Makropoulos bid. Even if they look favourite. Are we that desperate to be on the winning team? Why and what are the consequences of not being on the winning side? What favours are we pulling in? Have been pulling in? What has the Ilyumzhinov / Makropoulos team done for Canadian Chess over the past 23 years, that would have severely hindered us if we had not sided with them?
To me both Dvorkovitch and Short, on the surface (I am not the most educated person on the subject and I imagine there's a LOT of manure under it all), either appear a better bet then... more of the same. Unlike with the Kasparov / Karpov tickets of the recent past, I don't think we'd be risking anything at all by adventuring in a new direction.
Alex F.
Last edited by Alex Ferreira; Thursday, 5th July, 2018, 09:58 PM.
Hi Bob,
The CFC Pres has offered, in this thread, some basis for voting for Mr Makropoulos - some criterea which could be open for disagreement. The Pres has said .......
"Mr. Makropoulos offers some continuity....."
and in view of the odor left behind by the outgoing FIDE inner circle,
'continuity' would not be a desirable quality. Many would say a 'clean sweep' is what is needed.
Therefore, I agree Bob, this matter needs to be discussed by as many knowledgable chess supporters as Canada can muster.
Who do you think we should vote for? Though not exactly politically correct myself I would tend to shy away from candidates who make sexist remarks about women players, bigoted comments about certain players religious beliefs (Wesley So), and wholly inappropriate comments in obituaries of brilliant but troubled grandmasters (Tony Miles) .
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Wednesday, 21st August, 2024, 08:44 AM.
I also listened to the Nigel Short interview. Personally I've enjoyed some of his ... colourful articles as a columnist and find it hard to stomach him as a FIDE president. Chess ambassador or chess tourist though, he's actually traveled across the world, met all the little people, and might actually be in touch with reality of what's happening in the chess globe, compared to either Makropoulos or Dvorkovitch.
Short has some baggage which is often revealed or hinted at in those colourful articles and books like King's Gambit.
Before I visited Short in Athens, we had met only once, at the 2004 World Championship in Tripoli. Pascal introduced us in the tournament lunchroom, and within five minutes the veteran British grandmaster, who can be so erudite and introspective in his writings about the sub-rosa dynamics of a chess match, had steered the conversation to a frat-boy discussion of girls and told us much more than we cared to know about what he wanted to do with them. At the championship in Libya there were few young women for him to ogle, and he said, in mock frustration, that a certain underage male chess prodigy was starting to look pretty good. I regarded his quip as harmless and tasteless, but was surprised that he’d joke about this with a journalist he had only just met.
Hoffman, Paul. King's Gambit: A Son, a Father, and the World's Most Dangerous Game (p. 328). Hachette Books. Kindle Edition.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Wednesday, 21st August, 2024, 08:42 AM.
Who do you think we should vote for? Though not exactly politically correct myself I would tend to shy away from candidates who make sexist remarks about women players, bigoted comments about certain players religious beliefs (Wesley So), and wholly inappropriate comments in obituaries of brilliant but troubled grandmasters (Tony Miles) or who might have #metoo type issues (2010).
As you may perceive if you care to re-read my post, I did not suggest who to vote for.
In my many years as a chess organizer/promoter I don't ever recall meeting an elected chess organizer who was not primarily interested in being the 'one in charge' and they always wanted it be known that it was their mandate to make the final decision. Perhaps none of the current options for FIDE President would get my vote.
It may be that the world no longer produces the sort of chess embassadors I would vote for. Of the ones I've met, Paul Keres, Bent Larsen or Boris Spassky would get my vote.
What I did suggest was that there be an open forum so that anyone with anything to offer about a candidate for the office can voice their opinion.
As you may perceive if you care to re-read my post, I did not suggest who to vote for.
In my many years as a chess organizer/promoter I don't ever recall meeting an elected chess organizer who was not primarily interested in being the 'one in charge' and they always wanted it be known that it was their mandate to make the final decision. Perhaps none of the current options for FIDE President would get my vote.
It may be that the world no longer produces the sort of chess embassadors I would vote for. Of the ones I've met, Paul Keres, Bent Larsen or Boris Spassky would get my vote.
What I did suggest was that there be an open forum so that anyone with anything to offer about a candidate for the office can voice their opinion.
We have an open forum here and also on the CFC discussion forum. I do read chesstalk and actually like it better now that the trolls have disappeared. I know little to nothing about Mr. Dvorkovitch though he is a chess person and he did do a good job with the FIFA tournament. I have met Mr. Makropoulos, I have met Nigel Short. My reservations on Mr. Short have more to do with his treatment of others particularly those who have different views or are of a different gender. My impression is of an aging Lothario with a rakish bent. Entertaining at times but not something we can afford in a FIDE president.
Short has some baggage which is often revealed or hinted at in those colourful articles and books like King's Gambit.
Dvorkovitch looks interesting but may have U.S. Treasury Department issues of his own since he is closer to Putin than Ilyumzhinov.
If our goals are to precipitate the collapse of FIDE then one individual is on our Short list.
[/B]
As the author of the story said about Short, he regarded what Short said at the time as a "harmless and tasteless quip". The same ridiculous hysteria about the collapse of FIDE were made about why the CFC would not support Garry in 2014. The result of the CFC's support of Kirsan was that FIDE did in fact lead to collapse with the current FIDE President choosing for FIDE to not have normal access to financial transactions rather then resign.
Make no mistake about it , a chess federation that represents a Western democracy like Canada in the first world was a huge victory for Kirsan last time and what the CFC did was embolden many other chess federations to support Kirsan.
Makro's decades long association with Kirsan could well mean that the US Treasury Department would view Makro's sudden distancing from Kirsan as a cynical ploy viewed as "too little too late" for FIDE and no legitimate Western organization would want financial involvement with FIDE with the continued exposure to sanctions. As pointed out similar problems exist with the other candidate Dvorkovitch.
Sadly, I see no evidence of the CFC learning from its past mistakes which is a great pity for chess. Both Nigel and Garry have access to enormous and legitimate funds from the West that was foolishly ignored last time and should not be discounted this time.
Once again lt looks like given the choice of jumping into a pool of of water or a pool of acid the CFC chooses to jump feet first into a pool of acid. The members of the CFC deserve better as do all supporters of chess.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Friday, 6th July, 2018, 08:54 AM.
So......this is now a forum where we CFC plebs can weigh in on the FIDE Candidates........and I totally believe Vlad that he will read our opinions here and on the CFC Board......he's very good at that. Now sometimes, though, he listens, rejects, and makes the wrong decision. I am somewhat disappointed, I must admit, to realize he is not perfect!
Nigel's Neanderthal social views are out of step with current times. Thus he is unacceptable in any position of power, regardless of whether he may be JC Himself.
I have the same problem with Makro (Read about the LeSiege incident, I believe it was - or was it Kovalyov). In addition, anyone who could support the policies of Kirsan as long as he did, clearly sees the world quite wrongly.
Give the Russian new guy the ball..........he can't be worse (Unless a great scandal expose is about to break).
My humble 2 cents.
Hope other CFC plebs will post their opinions for Vlad to consider, which he will do.
If a slightly toned down version of Harvey Weinstein were running for FIDE president, should we support him because he has access to enormous and legitimate funds from the West?
Show us one person that has ever complained about sexual harassment or abuse at the hands of Mr Short. Tasteless and vulgar quips did not seem to prevent you from supporting Trump versus Hillary. Sorry Vlad, but your comparison of Nigel to Harvey Weinstein is over the top and in fact you are exposing yourself to libel.
Show us one person that has ever complained about sexual harassment or abuse at the hands of Mr Short. Tmuch younger asteless and vulgar quips did not seem to prevent you from supporting Trump versus Hillary. Sorry Vlad, but your comparison of Nigel to Harvey Weinstein is over the top and in fact you are exposing yourself to libel.
My job is not to show you that person but to share that information with the executive of the CFC. I have a fairly credible and extremely articulate source that I have known for about a decade or slightly longer. She was a one time member of a women's olympiad team of a western European nation. I witnessed an exchange on facebook some years ago that made me wonder. When Nigel announced for the FIDE presidency I asked her about that exchange and received an explanation. There is always a social dance where individuals who wish to consort with much younger members of the opposite sex need to have some skills at discerning when such advances are inappropriate and unwelcome. Believe me this is not a can of worms which Mr. Short would want to open. My position is quite defensible. This situation could blow up as the fury is still quite apparent.
Even without this there are a significant number of red flags that you are asking us to ignore with respect to this candidate.
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