FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated

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  • FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated

    Alexandra Botez

    https://www.facebook.com/chess/video...96044834230449

    I have raised this topic for many years now - here is a top Canadian female players input.

    Bob A
    Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Wednesday, 31st May, 2017, 07:48 AM.

  • #2
    Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated

    I was going to recommend that you conduct a survey of the top 20 female Canadian players to get their opinion on the matter. I went to the CFC website to do a search by gender. However this revealed that many female players are not identified as such in the CFC player database. Examples include Rachel Chen and Caroline Miller, both female players at the RA Chess Club.

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    • #3
      Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated

      Originally posted by Garland Best View Post
      I was going to recommend that you conduct a survey of the top 20 female Canadian players to get their opinion on the matter. I went to the CFC website to do a search by gender. However this revealed that many female players are not identified as such in the CFC player database. Examples include Rachel Chen and Caroline Miller, both female players at the RA Chess Club.
      Hi Garland:

      Good suggestion......but as I've been told for years, it needs to be done by a Canadian woman chess player, to confirm there is any interest in Ms. Botez' position, and since it is a women chess players' issue.

      What I have said in the past, was that I felt world-wide women chess players needed to put this on their agenda. If and when they did, then I had an opinion, if they were interested in this male's perspective. And I did publish my opinion about the "incubator" system, and that it had now fulfilled its purpose.

      Bob A

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      • #4
        Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated

        Originally posted by Garland Best View Post
        I was going to recommend that you conduct a survey of the top 20 female Canadian players to get their opinion on the matter. I went to the CFC website to do a search by gender. However this revealed that many female players are not identified as such in the CFC player database. Examples include Rachel Chen and Caroline Miller, both female players at the RA Chess Club.
        Hmmm.....that would be Caroline Chen and Rachel Miller. :)

        They are both identified as female in the database. The reason you don't see them on your search is due to the default settings.
        The default setting is current members, and both ladies have expired memberships.
        Everyone should spend a few minutes playing with the search parameters.

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        • #5
          Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

          Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
          Alexandra Botez

          https://www.facebook.com/chess/video...96044834230449

          I have raised this topic for many years now - here is a top Canadian female players input.

          Bob A
          It seems that the link I posted, that used to go to Alexandra's interview, now goes to the Chess.com homepage. I have done a visitor post there as to whether they have now removed the post (I couldn't find it on their timeline either). I've asked if they would explain.

          I'll keep you posted.

          Anyone else have any info on this?

          Bob A

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          • #6
            Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

            Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
            It seems that the link I posted, that used to go to Alexandra's interview, now goes to the Chess.com homepage. I have done a visitor post there as to whether they have now removed the post (I couldn't find it on their timeline either). I've asked if they would explain.

            I'll keep you posted.

            Anyone else have any info on this?

            Bob A
            Hi Bob A, are these links any use to you?



            Should Women’s Chess Titles Be Eliminated?
            By Vanessa West|May 25, 2017

            https://new.uschess.org/news/should-...be-eliminated/



            ChessCenter: Should Women's Titles Be Eliminated?
            With Alexandra Botez | May 29, 2017

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS3OiX19DLI

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

              Originally posted by Neil Frarey View Post
              Hi Bob A, are these links any use to you?



              Should Women’s Chess Titles Be Eliminated?
              By Vanessa West|May 25, 2017

              https://new.uschess.org/news/should-...be-eliminated/



              ChessCenter: Should Women's Titles Be Eliminated?
              With Alexandra Botez | May 29, 2017

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS3OiX19DLI
              Thanks Neil - I've used both of them on Fb Chess Chat.

              Bob A

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

                Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
                Thanks Neil - I've used both of them on Fb Chess Chat.

                Bob A
                Welcome, Bob A.

                I wonder how many of the current FIDE women title holders would lose their titles if/when the Men's title rating thresholds were to become the norm? For instance, a WGM rating threshold is 2300* ...would get bumped up to 2500?! Probably quite a few.


                *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIDE_titles
                Last edited by Neil Frarey; Thursday, 1st June, 2017, 06:21 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

                  What i find odd about the arguments put forth by Vanessa West is that they are almost exclusively utilitarian in nature, and seem to suggest that the end justifies the means, regardless of the principle involved. Vanessa basically argues that Women-specific Titles are wrong because in her opinion they do more harm than good. The implication is that she would reverse her decision if it was proven that Women-specific titles did more good than harm. So she is not really against Women-specific Titles in and of themselves, but only insofar as they might actually have the opposite effect to that intended.

                  Personally, I am of the opinion that Women-specific Titles are wrong in principle, because they are sexist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

                    Originally posted by Neil Frarey View Post
                    Welcome, Bob A.

                    I wonder how many of the current FIDE women title holders would lose their titles if/when the Men's title rating thresholds were to become the norm? For instance, a WGM rating threshold is 2300* ...would get bumped up to 2500?! Probably quite a few.


                    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIDE_titles
                    If the regulations changed to make the titles gender neutral, I would expect the existing titles to be grandfathered in (or is that grandmothered?)
                    I suppose that would have to include men or women who already have at least 1 norm toward a title (to continue the granfathering effect) - new regulations
                    would therefore apply only to new title process from that point onward.
                    Hope that would not lead to any sort of "asterisk" beside someone's title (like some of the Major League Baseball records?) - don't get me started on A-rod
                    and other steroid abusers who should not have been allowed back in the game.

                    PS: I would like to see the titles changed to be gender neutral.
                    Last edited by Kerry Liles; Friday, 2nd June, 2017, 10:23 AM. Reason: added PS to make my position clear

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                    • #11
                      Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

                      Looks like implementing gender-neutral titles could cause a veritable covfefe of complications. : /
                      "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
                      "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
                      "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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                      • #12
                        Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

                        Kerry wrote:

                        PS: I would like to see the titles changed to be gender neutral.
                        Something like "Grand Person"? "Master" has too much of a male air to it. :-)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

                          Alternatively, if FIDE is willing to state that females, simply because they are females, are inherently 200 Elo points weaker at chess than males (hence the different requirements for GM and WGM titles, and so forth), then of course they should continue with female-specific titles, otherwise it would not be fair to females since they cannot be expected to compete on a level playing field with males when they, females, are by their own very nature much weaker chess players than males.

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                          • #14
                            Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

                            Originally posted by Brad Thomson View Post
                            Alternatively, if FIDE is willing to state that females, simply because they are females, are inherently 200 Elo points weaker at chess than males (hence the different requirements for GM and WGM titles, and so forth), then of course they should continue with female-specific titles, otherwise it would not be fair to females since they cannot be expected to compete on a level playing field with males when they, females, are by their own very nature much weaker chess players than males.
                            Magnificent trolling there, fella!

                            But then, now that the Trump and quasi-religious crap seems top have run its course, the site owner needs to keep the visits up to maintain the entertainment value? Keep up the good work.....I think....,.
                            Fred Harvey

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: FIDE - Should Women's Titles be Eliiminated??

                              Hey Thomsonov, I have a question for you.

                              -----------------------------

                              Which phrase is more to the point?

                              A) Do it all again

                              ...or,

                              B) Do it all over again

                              -----------------------------

                              Both expressions phrase a form of repetition. But phrase B is seems to be somewhat melancholy and perhaps nostalgic too ...looking back rather than forward ...and seems less aggressive too.

                              Thoughts?

                              peace.
                              n.


                              P.S. In the context of chess, your pet opening. But that isn't my context of asking. Just thought I'd add that to avoid being beat up by the Chess Only Vigilantes. Beware of the COVs ... :D

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