2017 Canadian Championship

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  • Mathieu Cloutier
    replied
    Re: Controversy

    Originally posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
    Simple question, which apparently has a simple answer:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_(chess)
    Doesn't answer my question of when EXACTLY a player should stop the clock and call the arbiter. Before making the move, or after? I tend to think 'after'.

    Or maybe the question is not actually covered in the rules and both ways are OK?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kevin Pacey
    replied
    Re: Controversy

    Originally posted by Mathieu Cloutier View Post
    Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned yet in the thread, but since we're talking promotions...

    What is the EXACT procedure for promotion when the piece is not readily available?

    -Do you stop the clock BEFORE making your move and call for the arbiter?
    -Or do you put the pawn on the 8th rank, say the piece you promote out loud and THEN stop the clock?
    -Can there be a penalty if you don't do things exactly in the right order?
    Simple question, which apparently has a simple answer:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_(chess)

    Leave a comment:


  • Mathieu Cloutier
    replied
    Re: Controversy

    Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned yet in the thread, but since we're talking promotions...

    What is the EXACT procedure for promotion when the piece is not readily available?

    -Do you stop the clock BEFORE making your move and call for the arbiter?
    -Or do you put the pawn on the 8th rank, say the piece you promote out loud and THEN stop the clock?
    -Can there be a penalty if you don't do things exactly in the right order?

    Leave a comment:


  • Eric Gedajlovic
    replied
    Re: Controversy

    Why do they happen?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jonathan Berry
    replied
    Re: Controversy

    Philosophically, however, there is a lot to be said about why these disputes happen so often. I've found that usually nobody wants to hear it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jonathan Berry
    replied
    Controversy

    I used to be a daily visitor, but now often months go by ... I happened to pop in a couple of days ago and voilà a juicy and important dispute.

    Concerning the controversy proper, there's not much to add to comments already made. Of course I agree with some more than with others!

    I did look at the video uploaded by Nikolay: http://youtu.be/qBNEcRgHkvE

    Here is the game score I made from it:

    [Event "Canadian Championship "]
    [Site "Montreal"]
    [Date "2017.??.??"]
    [Round "blitz"]
    [White "Sambuev"]
    [Black "Noritsyn"]
    [Result "1-0"]
    [ECO "D36"]
    [TimeControl "5 + 3"]

    1. Nf3 d5 2. d4 c6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Bg5 Nbd7 6. cxd5 exd5 7. e3 Be7 8. Bd3
    O-O 9. O-O Re8 10. Qc2 a5 11. Ne5 Nf8 12. f4 N6d7 13. Bxe7 Qxe7 14. Rf3 f6 15.
    Nxd7 Bxd7 16. h3 g6 17. g4 Qd6 18. Qf2 Ne6 19. Kh1 c5 20. Rg1 cxd4 21. exd4 Nf8
    22. h4 Re7 23. f5 g5 24. hxg5 fxg5 25. f6 Rf7 26. Qe3 Ne6 27. Qe5 Qxe5 28. dxe5
    Bc6 29. Kh2 Re8 30. Rf5 h6 31. Ne2 Nc5 32. Nd4 Bd7 33. Bb5 Bxb5 34. Nxb5 Nd3
    35. Nd6 Rxe5 36. Nxf7 Kxf7 37. Rd1 Rxf5 38. gxf5 Nf4 39. Rc1 Kxf6 40. Rc7 d4
    41. Rxb7 d3 42. Rd7 Kxf5 43. Kg3 Ke4 44. Kf2 h5 45. a4 h4 46. b4 axb4 47. a5 h3
    48. a6 h2 49. Rh7 d2 50. a7 d1=R 51. a8=Q+ Nd5 52. Rxh2 Rd2+ 53. Kg3 Rd3+ 54.
    Kg4 Kd4 55. Qa7+ Kc4 56. Qa6+ Kd4 57. Qa1+ Nc3 58. Rh8 Kc4 59. Qb2 Rd4+ 60.
    Kxg5 Rd5+ 61. Kg6 Rd6+ 62. Kf7 Rd7+ 63. Ke6 Rc7 64. Rh4+ 1-0

    Here is a notation (each line contains only 3 or 4 items for readability, and because Bad Things can happen with long line lengths) I invented to track the pieces in Bator's left hand:
    6-13b15b21b
    24bp25*p,-28q
    34q36q38qr41qrp
    50*-52-60-

    The numbers are move numbers where a capture was made. * indicates a change in holdings not related to a capture. "-" means no pieces in the hand. So on move 6, Bator made a capture and left it by the side of the table. On move 13, Bator captured a bishop and kept it in his left hand, under the table. On move 15, he captured another piece, but did not add it to his holding. On move 25, with no captures in process, he unhanded the bishop, then the pawn so nothing remained in hand. On move 28 he recaptured and held the queen, adding to his stash on moves 38 and 41. On move 50 after Nikolay promoted to an upside-down rook, he released the three pieces (pawn, rook, queen) by the side of the board with his left hand, while using the right hand to pick up a white queen from the side of the board where the captured pieces stood. Before he could complete the promotion, the arbiter had stopped play. I have a 1 MB snapshot of this moment from the video at 14:20, but the interface said it was forty-something megabytes too big to upload. I didn't try to force it. Bad Things can happen if one tries to do too much.

    In my experience as a Master player and as an (Int'l) arbiter, players do not like to stop the clock. When you stop the clock, random things can happen (a tiny subset of which have been mentioned in the comments here), and random things can be Bad Things.

    Good Things can hardly ever happen if you allow your time to get low. If Nikolay had 40 seconds rather than 4 seconds, he could have said: "Hey, where's my queen?" (on his own time). Granted, there's probably an arbiter on this wide earth who would have forfeited him for that, but one hopes it is a decision that would be reversed on appeal. Ideally the arbiter too would have noticed that the black queen was missing, stopped the clock, discovered the queen, awarded Nikolay an extra minute for his troubles, and the game would have continued.

    Perhaps somebody in the distant past, before the days of video replay (I guess in Canada that would be pre-1988, World Chess Festival in Saint John, NB), determined that Bad Things can never happen if a player holds on to captured pieces. It could be that this somebody trained his or her students to do just that.

    Irony warning. Some have suggested that holding the extra queen is conduct unbefitting ... So, an arbiter, being prepared for eventualities, has a pair of queens in his pocket but in the heat of the moment overlooks the local situation and omits to bring out a black queen at the right time. He leaves the pieces hidden in his pocket. He might otherwise be a good arbiter, but if you determine that he should "lose the game" for his oversight, how do you incorporate his previous excellent work? End irony.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vlad Drkulec
    replied
    Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

    Originally posted by Ferdinand Supsup View Post
    I was wondering why the tiebreaks went to a playoff? Was the tiebreaks explained in English and French during the tournament? From chess-results.co http://www.chess-results.com/tnr2892...flag=30&wi=821. What was the intention of putting 5 tiebreaks if of no use? They should have deleted all the tiebreaks. Am pretty sure that by defaults, there were only 3 tiebreaks in Swiss Manager. I hope that the on-going and incoming 2017 CYCC and COCC will have the tiebreaks (playoff, formula, toss coin etc.) decided at the start of Round 1.
    Perhaps the tie-breaks would decide 2nd and 3rd in the event of a tie as there is a bonus for Olympiad team selection. Perhaps there were trophies.

    Leave a comment:


  • Louis Morin
    replied
    Re : Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

    Originally posted by Hugh Brodie View Post
    60 times the increment of 3 seconds is 180 seconds (or 3 minutes). Added to the base time of 5 minutes, this is a total of 8 minutes per player - which is less than 10 minutes - i.e. "blitz". :-)
    Sorry Steve, Hugh and Mathieu, you are right of course, I did not see that the 10 minutes was "per player".

    On the other hand, this does not change anything for the tiebreak, since the normal rules were used (not the rapid rules or blitz rules).

    Leave a comment:


  • Mathieu Cloutier
    replied
    Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

    Originally posted by Louis Morin View Post
    From the FIDE website: A ‘blitz’ game’ is one where all the moves must be completed in a fixed time of 10 minutes or less for each player; or the allotted time plus 60 times any increment is 10 minutes or less.

    G5+3 is more than 10 minutes.
    5min. +3 sec. is certainly more like blitz with an increment than rapid.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hugh Brodie
    replied
    Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

    Louis wrote:

    From the FIDE website: A ‘blitz’ game’ is one where all the moves must be completed in a fixed time of 10 minutes or less for each player; or the allotted time plus 60 times any increment is 10 minutes or less.

    G5+3 is more than 10 minutes.
    60 times the increment of 3 seconds is 180 seconds (or 3 minutes). Added to the base time of 5 minutes, this is a total of 8 minutes per player - which is less than 10 minutes - i.e. "blitz". :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • Louis Morin
    replied
    Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

    Originally posted by Steve Douglas View Post
    I thought this game (the 6th tie-break game) was G5+3, which is Blitz, not Rapid.

    Steve
    From the FIDE website: A ‘blitz’ game’ is one where all the moves must be completed in a fixed time of 10 minutes or less for each player; or the allotted time plus 60 times any increment is 10 minutes or less.

    G5+3 is more than 10 minutes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve Douglas
    replied
    Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

    Originally posted by Louis Morin View Post
    This was a rapid tiebreak, not a blitz tiebreak. And any player not finding a Queen could stop the clock and go to the table with extra Queens to get one.
    I thought this game (the 6th tie-break game) was G5+3, which is Blitz, not Rapid.

    Steve

    Leave a comment:


  • Louis Morin
    replied
    Re : Re: Re : Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

    Originally posted by Mathieu Cloutier View Post
    In classical chess, that's fine. Get up on your opponent's time and grab a queen.

    In a blitz tiebreak, the table with extra queens is completely useless.

    This was a rapid tiebreak, not a blitz tiebreak. And any player not finding a Queen could stop the clock and go to the table with extra Queens to get one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mathieu Cloutier
    replied
    Re: Re : Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

    Originally posted by Ferdinand Supsup View Post
    Use
    They can announce as much special tables and as much tiebreaks as they wish, if they don't use them, simply USELESS!
    In classical chess, that's fine. Get up on your opponent's time and grab a queen.

    In a blitz tiebreak, the table with extra queens is completely useless.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ferdinand Supsup
    replied
    Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

    Corrected.

    Leave a comment:

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