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By my understanding the latest FIDE tournament rules state that if a player promotes a pawn but does not replace it with a piece, the pawn is deemed to be a queen. Therefore it is not illegal to leave the promoted pawn on the board and play it as a queen. I wonder if someone with more up-to-date knowledge of the rules can confirm this.
It seems unreasonable that there is no rule about hindering an opponent's access to his captured pieces. By contrast, it is illegal to move or tamper with the clock during play, but why there is no rule about tampering with captured pieces is a bit of a mystery. They are not the personal property of the player who has captured them. Except for the pawns they all have the potential to reappear on the board. In that sense they are still "in play."
First, it is the arbiters decision. Then you may appeal the decision to the CFC appeals committee.
But I would send the appeal to CFC right away. Just send an email to CFC office.
It seems the first line of appeal would be to the tournament appeals committee.
It seems the first line of appeal would be to the tournament appeals committee.
Upthread, Nikolay wrote "After the playoffs, I asked about the appeals process. I was told to appeal to the CFC, not to the tournament appeal committee. "
Upthread, Nikolay wrote "After the playoffs, I asked about the appeals process. I was told to appeal to the CFC, not to the tournament appeal committee. "
It makes no sense to me to appeal to the CFC first when the issue was during the tournament.
To my mind the only person at fault here is the arbiter. Even if this ruling is consistent with the letter of the law, the interests of fairness have to prevail.
It makes no sense to me to appeal to the CFC first when the issue was during the tournament.
The normal process would be to appeal to the arbiter (i.e. state that you disagree with the decision, explain your reasons, and ask the arbiter to reconsider), then the appeals committee for the tournament itself, if there is one, and then the CFC National Appeals Committee.
In my opinion as a layman, the result of the tournament was not fair. The fault lies three ways:
1. With Noritsyn for promoting to an upside-down rook.
2. With Sambuev for fidgeting with the pieces including the queen which Noritsyn couldn't find, effectively hiding it.
3. With the TD/Arbiter/Organizers for not having a spare Queen ready in the first place and then not noticing the situation as it developed.
Nikolay's mistake was understandable in the circumstances. I don't think Bator deliberately intended to influence the game (the video shows him fidgeting with pieces and gesturing throughout).
That leaves things at the feet of the TD/Arbiter/Organizer. They decided upon the tie-break formula, there was only one game going on, they should have anticipated a promotion in a time-scramble, and yet a queen was not available when needed for promotion.
I don't have any suggestions as to how to resolve this mess, other than having another playoff (of some sort) or declaring co-champions.
By my understanding the latest FIDE tournament rules state that if a player promotes a pawn but does not replace it with a piece, the pawn is deemed to be a queen. Therefore it is not illegal to leave the promoted pawn on the board and play it as a queen. I wonder if someone with more up-to-date knowledge of the rules can confirm this.
The new rules effective July 1 doesn't seem to include this. I could be wrong; I just couldn't find what you mentioned.
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Well, that seems quite clear. The move is not complete until the promoted pawn has been replaced by a piece. I don't see anything about upside-down rooks, so it's obviously a simple consequence of the promotion rule. There is no such piece as an upside-down rook.
So the correct action by Noritsyn would have been to stop the clocks, summon an arbiter, and ask him or her to supply a Black queen. I wonder how that would have played out... if Sambuev had put the queen back on the board (as he did in the actual game). Noritsyn might well have been forfeited for illegally stopping the clock.
Any way you look at it, the whole mess was caused by the arbiters. And this is the Canadian Championship!
It is a good thing (and an amazing thing) that there is a video of the entire game... Now all that is missing is any sort of statement from Bator Sambuev. On the chess.com report that is referenced in a separate thread, it was noted that the arbiter was IA Pierre Dénommée - in that report he is quoted as saying that "... due to contractual obligations, he cannot comment on the specifics of the incident."
It would be VERY useful to hear from Sambuev and Denommee but perhaps that will never happen?
I also note in the chess.com article it is stated:
"Noritsyn confirmed to Chess.com that he has filed an appeal to the Chess Federation of Canada, which has a National Appeals Committee for such cases. He referenced his queen being hidden and said FIDE rule 12.1 is a bit of a 'catchall' and states: 'The players shall take no action that will bring the game of chess into disrepute.'
He said he is 'agnostic' as to whether he thinks Sambuev was hiding the queen deliberately."
Of course only one person can know whether Sambuev was hiding the Queen deliberately.
I exposed Dénommée as an incompetent arbiter years ago.
I exposed Dénommée as an incompetent arbiter years ago.
This incident is simply more grist for the mill.
I repeat what I posted early in this thread.....nice to see people are finally getting to the real culprit! At least we have a picture of him taking pictures instead of doing his job. Hopefully no more gigs for him.....
Bator only realized what he was doing when all hell broke loose, and replaced the queen where it should have been all the timel He probably didn't appreciate that there was a known prat as referee, who royally screwed up?
After seeing the u tube I think this game is the biggest joke in Canadian History. If Bator is holding the Queen and Nikolay had no way of finding it fast,then what the aribiters should have done is stop the clock ask Nikolay what did he want when he promoting to as the available queen was shuffled like a magician a distration to reach for a queen and let go of the hidden pieces but only after Nikolay has reached for a rook and find him his frigging queen.
The joke is that at top levels there should always be two queens at a board. Nikolay was framed, shammed. scammed or our right cheated in this game and it was done like a 3 card montey, a card sharks trick, a slight of hand or just plain cheating. I hope Bator is not going to train his kids to hold pieces so your opponent can not get to them. Nikolay played a gentleman's game. Bator in my opinion did not.
A controversy - similar in ways - arose in the 2008 US Women's championship which needed an Armageddon playoff game to decide the title. A lot of touching/moving pieces before the other player has pressed - with no arbiter intervention. Irina Krush reacts to her loss by sending her King across the room.
After seeing the u tube I think this game is the biggest joke in Canadian History. If Bator is holding the Queen and Nikolay had no way of finding it fast,then what the aribiters should have done is stop the clock ask Nikolay what did he want when he promoting to as the available queen was shuffled like a magician a distration to reach for a queen and let go of the hidden pieces but only after Nikolay has reached for a rook and find him his frigging queen.
The joke is that at top levels there should always be two queens at a board. Nikolay was framed, shammed. scammed or our right cheated in this game and it was done like a 3 card montey, a card sharks trick, a slight of hand or just plain cheating. I hope Bator is not going to train his kids to hold pieces so your opponent can not get to them. Nikolay played a gentleman's game. Bator in my opinion did not.
There is no cause to blame Bator for this. No way it was done intentionally on his part - like many people do he was fiddling with captured pieces while thinking over his moves. After Nikolai promoted, he dropped the Black queen he was holding and grabbed a White one to promote his own pawn, then the arbiter intervened. Everything happened within a few seconds and during an extremely high-tension moment in the game/ tournament situation.
All the fault lies with the arbiter for making a ridiculous ruling (not to mention not being prepared before the game with extra queens).
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