Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

[Mark Biong]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

Look at the whole video Peter. From 9:49-12:46 Bator has only one piece in his hand and it is the Black Queen. It is hidden under the table in his hand. Everything else is above the table and visible.

I'm not going to give out the pop culture reference if you haven't seen it regarding "evil" :)

Oh yes, yes YES, you may call that Mastur Bator "ing" the Queen! Sorry Grand Masturbator, it just sounds like it! But please do not masturbate the Queen, she is most needed during promotion. For the arbiter, as a chess player, I don't even know where is the pause button of the clock? And please do not ask expect me to pause the clock (not STOP the clock since stopping my clock, starts my opponent's clock). The right word here should be PAUSE not STOP the clock. All I know as a chess player is to STOP my clock, in order to START my opponent's clock. Chess players do not even know how to set their clocks, how much more to PAUSE a clock?!

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

Canadian episode is mentioned in Anand-Kramnik two hand move
https://www.chess.com/news/view/did-...s-kramnik-1822

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

Fwiw, not that many years ago I needed to underpromote to a knight to win, in order to avoid giving stalemate (or obtaining a B+wrong rook's pawn drawn case).
...

For anyone interested, here's a link to a blog entry re: my (annotated) five games from the 2013 Gatineau Open, as can be played over by a PGN viewer. The N underpromotion occurred in my round 4 game, at move 75:

http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/en...eau-Open-games

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

I kind of like Neil's idea better (that plus having just an extra queen already available near each player, in important games anyway). It's extremely unlikely a player will need more than two queens, or to underpromote more than once, during a time scramble anyway. I'd personally not mind using an inverted rook as, say, a Q, if nothing's instantly available, but not allowing that, as is the current rule, is understandable (e.g. aesthetics, possible confusion about the identity of said piece later on).

On the other hand, if a player needs to underpromote to, say, a N, and the opponent is allowed by some sort of possible loophole in the current rules of chess to unconditionally handle captured pieces, including both of his opponent's Ns, in his hand(s), unthinkingly or otherwise...

[Mathieu Cloutier]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

Why this notion of having a table with extra Queens set up somewhere in the room? Who came up with that garbage idea, forcing players to stop the clock, go to this table, get their Queen, come back and put it on the board, then press their clock, giving their opponent extra time to think of a response?

FIDE should declare that an official set of chess pieces include the 16 normal ones of each color, plus 2 extra Queens, 1 extra Bishop, 1 extra Knight, 1 extra Rook of each color, and that each player have these extra pieces of their own color in front of them before the game starts.

Why not go further? There's 8 pawns, so we need 8 of each pieces. 8 Queens, 8 Rooks, 8 Bishops and 8 knights. Can't be safe enough.

Also, we're gonna need bigger tables.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

Fwiw, not that many years ago I needed to under-promote to a knight to win, in order to avoid giving stalemate (or obtaining a B+wrong rook's pawn drawn case). Thus, it might not necessarily be enough to have a table with extra queens in the room, during a time scramble with little time to think calmly.

Why this notion of having a table with extra Queens set up somewhere in the room? Who came up with that garbage idea, forcing players to stop the clock, go to this table, get their Queen, come back and put it on the board, then press their clock, giving their opponent extra time to think of a response?

FIDE should declare that an official set of chess pieces include the 16 normal ones of each color, plus 2 extra Queens, 1 extra Bishop, 1 extra Knight, 1 extra Rook of each color, and that each player have these extra pieces of their own color in front of them before the game starts.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

Fwiw, not that many years ago I needed to underpromote to a knight to win, in order to avoid giving stalemate (or obtaining a B+wrong rook's pawn drawn case). Thus, it might not necessarily be enough to have a table with extra queens in the room, during a time scramble with little time to think calmly.

[Neil Frarey]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

The idea for a new rule that you suggest is, more or less, already part of Japanese Chess (aka Shogi) official rules. In that game, the pieces that a player captures suddenly (but often temporarily) 'belong' to him (as is also the case in Crazyhouse or Bughouse Chess), in that one of them might be dropped on the board instead of making a move. However, the captured pieces must remain in view of the opponent(s), as you suggest. Thus it seems in principle a similar sort of rule could be applied to the handling of captured pieces in a game of standard chess, as you suggest, moreso given that there are similar precidents, e.g. with the other 3 variants of chess I mentioned above.

However, perhaps it might be better if first FIDE, being the international ruling body, would pass any such vital new rule of chess, if it chooses to do so, rather than the CFC, and then it would naturally be applied at every national level, such as for in Canada, to be followed in FIDE rated events there at least.

Interested info on those variations, Kevin.

BTW, that was sort of my posts here:

http://forum.chesstalk.com/showthrea...814#post114814


And speaking of my 3rd favorite country of all time ...I just purchased an original Hokusai!

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

...I do think that there needs to be some sort [of] rule. Perhaps something about captured pieces remaining un-clutched(?) un-fidgeted(?) and placed in plain view to the opponent.

This a great opportunity for the CFC to take the lead on the matter.

The idea for a new rule that you suggest is, more or less, already part of Japanese Chess (aka Shogi) official rules. In that game, the pieces that a player captures suddenly (but often temporarily) 'belong' to him (as is also the case in Crazyhouse or Bughouse Chess), in that one of them might be dropped on the board instead of making a move. However, the captured pieces must remain in view of the opponent(s), as you suggest. Thus it seems in principle a similar sort of rule could be applied to the handling of captured pieces in a game of standard chess, as you suggest, moreso given that there are similar precidents, e.g. with the other 3 variants of chess I mentioned above.

However, perhaps it might be better if first FIDE, being the international ruling body, would pass any such vital new rule of chess, if it chooses to do so, rather than the CFC, and then it would naturally be applied at every national level, such as for in Canada, to be followed in FIDE rated events there at least.

[Neil Frarey]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

He would be treated no different then any other player. I have no idea what was going through his head. My point is that if someone hangs on to an opponents Queen, even, accidentally, especially during fast time controls then this should fall under rule 12.6 of not allowing distractions or annoyances. 12.6 has no provision for accidentally distracting or annoying an opponent. Either the opponent finds it annoying or distracting or he does not, in this case he did.

I agree, but I do think that there needs to be some sort rule. Perhaps something about captured pieces remaining un-clutched(?) un-fidgeted(?) and placed in plain view to the opponent.

This a great opportunity for the CFC to take the lead on the matter.

[Sid Belzberg]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

Sid, knowing what you now know, if you were to organize a tournament how would you deal with GM Sambuev's registration to play in your tournament?

He would be treated no different then any other player. I have no idea what was going through his head. My point is that if someone hangs on to an opponents Queen, even, accidentally, especially during fast time controls then this should fall under rule 12.6 of not allowing distractions or annoyances. 12.6 has no provision for accidentally distracting or annoying an opponent. Either the opponent finds it annoying or distracting or he does not, in this case he did.

[Mavros Whissell]

Re: Re : Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

Louis,

About this table with 40 Queens on it...

Did Sambuev in anyway quietly approach the table and sweep them all off into a plastic bag, before hurling said bag out the window?

This would certainly be the precedent I was worried about.

[Mavros Whissell]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

Yes, you are correct.

[Mavros Whissell]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

In this instance, as John Upper pointed out, its a second queen that is being promoted to. My mistake. This is completely a different storey to me.

Bator therefore has zero guilt in this storey. It sets no precedent.

Its not Bator's job to stop the arbiter or resign if his opponent would have been forced to have a rook instead.

[Mavros Whissell]

Re: Controversial Finish To Canadian Championship

Mathieu,

It was my mistake if I was too aggressive. I just wanted to provoke thought from you. I think you have a clear bias against the arbiter - you don't like him. That's all. I took no sincere offense from your post, and apologise for offending you with mine.

I just think its a big mistake to overlook what really happened, simply because it is a chance to make a fool out of an arbiter who has probably pissed you off before. The arbiter now does look the fool - he has his punishment. You and many others know his name.

That is what you sound like you are using this as an opportunity to do, I believe. I don't think its the whole storey.