Susan Polgar: Why is there a need for Girl’s or Women’s Tournaments?

[Nigel Hanrahan]

This is probably one of the top 5 questions I have most often been asked over the past 15 years, since creating the Susan Polgar Foundation in 2002....

In her own words ...

[Gordon Ritchie]

Re: Susan Polgar: Why is there a need for Girl’s or Women’s Tournaments?

Susan (and her sisters) has been a great promoter of women in chess. She did a wonderful job at the 2007 CYCC in Ottawa where she presided, gave several lectures and simuls, and generally made herself available to all the talented youngsters. She even stayed an extra couple of days at her own expense to enjoy Ottawa. A classy chess champion.

[Peter McKillop]

Re: Susan Polgar: Why is there a need for Girl’s or Women’s Tournaments?

Thanks for posting that, Nigel. Hopefully the Armstrongs and Thompsons of the chess world will take note.

[Neil Frarey]

When will our chess society be unified?

When will we live in a world without inequality?

Never?

So long as we continue to support those who separate Us from Them ... You from Me ...Female from Male...Black from White ... society will always be fractured.

Always.

Of course in chess there should no longer be a Men's only tournament, a Women's only tournament! Under no pretense whatsoever is a woman's chess ability less than a males, none. It's ridiculous and insulting to act otherwise.

You really want to encourage a fractured society?

Why?

For the money? Vanity? Or perhaps, you just haven't done enough damage already?

[Nigel Hanrahan]

all hail GM Susan Polgar

Thanks for posting that, Nigel. Hopefully the Armstrongs and Thompsons of the chess world will take note.

I've changed my opinion. They actually have to die. Misogynists don't change their views. Just drop dead already. I know that sounds nasty.

supplemental: Yikes. Don't post when you've been out "socializing". The above remarks are a little extreme. mea culpa.

[Lucas Davies]

Re: When will our chess society be unified?

When will we live in a world without inequality?

Never?

So long as we continue to support those who separate Us from Them ... You from Me ...Female from Male...Black from White ... society will always be fractured.

Always.

Of course in chess there should no longer be a Men's only tournament, a Women's only tournament! Under no pretense whatsoever is a woman's chess ability less than a males, none. It's ridiculous and insulting to act otherwise.

You really want to encourage a fractured society?

Why?

For the money? Vanity? Or perhaps, you just haven't done enough damage already?

Here's a link that explains some of the reasoning behind women's only tournaments that you might be interested in: https://chessdailynews.com/why-is-th...s-tournaments/

[Gerhard Roth]

Re: When will our chess society be unified?

Polgar makes many statements about the reasons for the lack of women in chess, but does not provide any evidence other than her own personal experience. Note that in her chessdailynews article even she can not resist making a statement about the innate differences between men and women (boys/ men are on average more aggressive and competitive). The fact that she is a good ambassador for chess is not relevant. A scientific (evidence based) approach to sex differences is in my opinion given in the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PaL5FW5src There is strong evidence that innate sex differences have impact on the "tails" of the distributions. So on the average while the performance of men and women in science and math in many countries is now about equal, there are many more men who are "idiots" and "geniuses". This tendency is also present in the intelligence test data for men and women over time. However, it is interesting to note that this gap is decreasing over time (as noted in the video) so there is some ambiguity.

Another example of an evidence based approach to this issue is the international PISA math tests. Look at http://www.compareyourcountry.org/pi...ntry/can?lg=en and scroll down to performance gap between boys and girls. Here I quote directly from the web site "In most countries, boys perform slightly better than girls in science. However, top-performing boys outperform top-performing girls by a large margin in many countries. Boys outperform girls in mathematics in most countries while girls outperform boys in reading in virtually all countries and economies." Why not start a program to increase the reading scores of boys? Is reading not as important in life as having math and science skills?

Certainly the polices in many countries have made possible advances for women and have worked in many fields. But the same policies do not seem to work as well for chess. The lack of women in Google, which is a very elite high tech company, is a similar problem to their absence at the top levels of chess. In my opinion the explanation is the same.

[Kerry Liles]

Re: When will our chess society be unified?

Here's a link that explains some of the reasoning behind women's only tournaments that you might be interested in: https://chessdailynews.com/why-is-th...s-tournaments/

That is the same link in the post that started this thread... the starting post didn't make it all that clear that the text of the post WAS the link, so perhaps Neil (and others) may have overlooked the article by Susan Polgar. There are many activities/professions/jobs that traditionally have been dominated by males - that seems to be a simple fact of history. I am not saying that it a good thing but many centuries of assumptions are hard to overcome.

[Peter McKillop]

Re: When will our chess society be unified?

Gerhard, you're discussing intelligence-based factors but Susan Polgar's article also discussed social factors. Perhaps, when it comes to encouraging girls to play chess by offering some girls-only tournaments, social-based factors are more important. Who hasn't attended a large tournament in recent years and experienced the between-rounds 'packs' of little boys: rambunctious, loud, sometimes rude or obnoxious? Based on my experience as a parent and grandparent, this is not the type of milieu little girls enjoy. Polgar, referring to adult males, also mentions the creep/safety factor. This is very important. It is hard for most males to appreciate what it would be like having to live segments of your life against a background of concern for your personal safety. I hate to say it but I suspect that the proportion of adult male creeps at a large tournament might be higher than it is in the general population. In the creep group I include those males who treat their female opponents in a rude or condescending manner. It only takes one creep to cast a negative cloud over an otherwise enjoyable tournament experience.

[Hans Jung]

Re: When will our chess society be unified?

I applaud what Susan Polgar is doing (and I am an aging white male).

[Bob Gillanders]

Re: When will our chess society be unified?

I applaud what Susan Polgar is doing (and I am an aging white male).

Me too! Groan.

[Peter McKillop]

Re: When will our chess society be unified?

I applaud what Susan Polgar is doing (and I am an aging white male).

With a Morphy number of 3, you've got to be getting up there old-timer! :)

[Hans Jung]

Re: When will our chess society be unified?

I am a senior and a grandfather (still hard to believe how fast life goes by) but still trying to play youthful chess.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: When will our chess society be unified?

With a Morphy number of 3, you've got to be getting up there old-timer! :)

really? what's the sequence of games played to get that number?

[Peter McKillop]

Re: When will our chess society be unified?

really? what's the sequence of games played to get that number?

You'll have to double check this with Hans but I believe it was Morphy v Bird, Bird v Jack Ronean (as a boy in the very early 1900s), and Jack Ronean v several dozen players in the London, ON, area in the 1960s, '70s, and '80s.

P.S. This is based, of course, on Mr. Ronean's assertion that he played Bird in some sort of exhibition when he was a boy. Therefore, no game score and no absolute confirmation.