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I've always understood your position to be that chess should be promoted for the masses, and that mainly means outside of organized chess, a la FIDE, the CFC perhaps even Chess n' Math. But a natural outgrowth of that is there will be increasing numbers of players who want to be the best at what they do. Surely there is nothing wrong with that.
But to "become the best" you have to compete against the best, which is why there are organized sports, and ranking systems, and competitions at various levels. Conversely, individuals who reach high levels help promote the game. How many kids playing hockey dream of being the next Sidney Crosby or carrying the Stanley Cup?
Given this, providing support and publicity to our top players should raise the visibility of chess in Canada. This has been demonstrated especially with the youth program, where youths who achieve on the world stage get newspaper and television attention. This in turn raises the public profile of chess.
I'm not saying that elite players should be idolized without question. Irresponsible and harmful behavior needs to be recognized and stop.
I'm also not against a program that focuses more attention on a grassroots level as opposed to focused on "elite players", if the results are more productive in getting more players to play.
But to denigrate all levels of players because want to play in FIDE rated events, or to equate a high rating as being un-Canadian cannot possibly help promote the game in Canada.
So where are you going with this?
Remember this in everything that you do with the Chess Federation of Canada ... U1800 CFC players carry the CFC on their backs and pay the vast majority of the bills. Bills such as the Upper & Gillander salaries ... the vast majority of the expenses for your Elite ...etc..
U1800 account for about 75% of the total CFC membership. And of those ... few will achieve and maintain a +1800 rating.
Again, who pays the bills? Who carries organized rated chess in Canada on their backs? NOT the Elite player. It is those U1800! And of those ... almost 80% are U1600! So, by extension, there's nothing 'Elite' about a perennial FIDE Class player. It's more about wanting to be part of FIDE. A FIDE that has all the world's top players than it is about being anything near ...'Elite'...best of the best.
Totally agree. If CFC boycott the Olympiad, Canadian Chess will be brought back to Pre-Historic time and all forms of Chess tournaments will just collapse.
Seriously, really ... Canadian chess tournaments will just collapse? Go ask the 75% of CFC total memberships about that! All they want to do is get in a fair game or two within their own tax bracket!!!
You really think opting out of FIDE's Olympiad is the end of their world???
Um, no.
So, does it really matter if local event aren't FIDE rated? Cut the flow of money from Canada to FIDE.
Further: Dump FIDE's chess server and go to a grassroots chess server such as ICC or Chess dot com as does US Chess (USCF) ...much better for business! Well, our business not FIDE's.
Last edited by Neil Frarey; Monday, 16th October, 2017, 11:34 PM.
Remember this in everything that you do with the Chess Federation of Canada ... U1800 CFC players carry the CFC on their backs and pay the vast majority of the bills. Bills such as the Upper & Gillander salaries ... the vast majority of the expenses for your Elite ...etc..
U1800 account for about 75% of the total CFC membership. And of those ... few will achieve and maintain a +1800 rating.
While I get that you believe the U1800 deserve larger attention and resources than they currently get, I don't think calling those who are higher rated less Canadian endears you more to the U1800 crowd. Nor do I see how it helps promote chess in Canada. It's division politics.
I would just send our best team and wear suits covered in Red maple Leaves. White Suits, White Shirts covered in Red Maple Leaves and a Red Tie with White Maple Leaves. Be proud you are Canadian and do well at the Olympics. Politics will always cause trouble. Be proud Canadians and show it.
Much better idea than boycot. That would be probably against the dress code. :D
If our team gets kicked out because if it, then chess would finally receive some media attention in this country.
While I get that you believe the U1800 deserve larger attention and resources than they currently get, I don't think calling those who are higher rated less Canadian endears you more to the U1800 crowd. Nor do I see how it helps promote chess in Canada. It's division politics.
In the current rating's climate ultimately it comes down to globalism vs nationalism. So even if we somehow miraculously recoup your missing $60,000.00 and plow it into the field of Canadian globalism (FIDE this & FIDE that) it won't make a pawn's worth of difference to the U1800s.
The more you promote FIDE in Canada ...the less you promote your own. So, when will the day come when there is no longer a Canadian rating system? Why pay for both? Why not only have one global rating system? Pay half as much as we do now. You could become tied 285,449th person in the world with a rating of 1776!
Wonderful, eh?
Last edited by Neil Frarey; Tuesday, 17th October, 2017, 08:55 PM.
Probably, some chesstalkers will like the idea to send intentionally low-rated team to 2018-Olympiad in Georgia. In my opinion, it's even worse than a simple boycott.
Why would it be worse?
Whether it is better or worse than sending no teams depends on what you think the purpose of (not) sending any team is. I think you and I have different ideas about the purpose of a boycott (see below).
...these boycotts had very limited influence and did not significantly reduced the sport value of the events.
I agree that not sending Canadian teams -- or sending token teams as a kind of money-making insult -- will not significantly reduce the sporting value of the 2018 Olympiad.
With Kovalyov refusing to play, and Bareev (probably) ineligible due to not playing enough rated games, we would be missing our top two FIDE-rated players; so the best Canadian men's team we could send would have a starting rank somewhere in the middle of the pack, and would be extremely unlikely to have any impact on the top finishers.
But reducing the sporting value of an event is not the only reason for a boycott.
The goal of a Canadian boycott of the 2018 Olympiad would be to make it clear to FIDE and the rest of the chess world that we think Zurab's events are not legitimate chess tournaments: they are not bound by the normal rules of sporting competitions but by the whims of an emotionally unstable thug.
Sadly, that last bit is not hyperbole. If Zurab's outburst at the 2017 World Cup was an uncharacteristic lapse by an otherwise stable and widely respected chess organizer, then a few simple steps might be sufficient to put this problem behind us with:
compensation to Kovalyov,
an apology to Kovalyov,
an apology to FIDE, and
clarifying FIDE's dress code.
But:
1) this is not an uncharacteristic lapse by Zurab: he has a history of belligerence in response to disagreement;
2) AFAIK, Zurab has not apologized to anyone, and FIDE has neither sanctioned nor even publicly criticized Zurab for his behaviour.
These two facts mean that we cannot reasonably expect his behaviour to be any better at the Olympiad than it was at the World Cup. Worse, he might well take point 2 above as justifying his belief that FIDE backs his actions.
Who among us -- as players or as chess fans or the parents of chess players -- wants to legitimize a circus run by an organizer like this?
"if an organizer badgered, insulted, and threatened you a few minutes before one of your games, would you play in one of his events in the future?"
To make this question even more pointed: if a Canadian organizer -- Hal Bond or Halldor Palsson or Roger Patterson or Vlad Rekhson -- acted like that, would you travel and pay to play in one of their events?
Your answer might be "yes" -- we all have different levels of tolerance for (what I think of as) being treated like s*** -- that's why this is a real question, and one I'd like to hear other answers to.
So far, the only Olympiad-eligible player to contribute to this thread semi-responded by saying that the issue was about pants -- players should dress differently than Anton did -- and not about the FIDE-approved wild animal running the event. I disagree with Aman's assessment of the issue. If Anton had clearly violated FIDE's dress code, then the only issue would be about the relative merits of a dress code vs Anton's childish/stubborn/freedom-loving refusal to obey. But, as many people have pointed out, FIDE's dress code is ambiguous; and, as I argued above, Anton had sufficient precedent to reasonably believe that his shorts would be acceptable clothing for his round 3.1 game.
I think I've read all the posts in this thread -- even the one by Paul B -- but so far, no one has responded to this argument, even though it is crucial for moving beyond the "it's a dress code issue" deflection.
PS: I see my "Rep Power" has suddenly somehow dropped from around 6 or 8 or so down to 0. Assuming that's not some sort of technical glitch -- or somebody just being an a**hole and clicking a bunch of -1s -- I'll take that as a reason not to post anymore.
Last edited by John Upper; Wednesday, 18th October, 2017, 04:21 AM.
John, a few points as a response to your last post:
1. I do think that almost every boycott is bad. The only boycott that must be done in last 100 years was 1936-Olympiad in Berlin. Unfortunately, nobody boycotted this event.
2. Sending a "money team" as you proposed - it's a very wrong message to our chess community, especially to young players and their parents.
3. In your first post on this thread you agreed that asking our top players is important. We got so far just one response (from Aman Hambleton). You disagree with his argument, but his position is absolutely clear. In my previous post I expressed a strong confidence about "opinion of our top players".
4. I agree with you that Anton Kovalyov did not violate the dress code, because the dress code was not clear. In communist countries, everything which is not allowed is forbidden. In normal countries, it's just opposite.
5. I don't want to comment too much about Anton-Zurab case. Anton could easely say to him: "Leave me alone. I have an important game to play. Tomorrow I will be fine." That's it. He decided to do something different and we have to respect his decision.
6. Why do you care about "Rep Power"? Your RP of 0 is an absurd. However, even before your last posts, your RP of something "around 6 or 8" compare to RP of Paul Bonham (11) was an absurd as well.
7. You asked me a question: "if a Canadian organizer -- Hal Bond or Halldor Palsson or Roger Patterson or Vlad Rekhson -- acted like that, would you travel and pay to play in one of their events? ".
I would not participate it his events, but I would not call to boycott them in this case. We are not talking about some random unofficial tournament, organized by Zurab A. - we are talking about the major chess event. In my opinion, it's a different case. If somebody organizes an all-Canadian event similar to Chess Olympiad - I would come and play anyway, no matter if I hate the organizer.
Last edited by Victor Plotkin; Wednesday, 18th October, 2017, 07:11 AM.
6. Why do you care about "Rep Power"? Your RP of 0 is an absurd. However, even before your last posts, your RP of something "around 6 or 8" compare to RP of Paul Bonham (11) was an absurd as well.
Whereas I am a 12. :) :) I don't know why or how that happens.
How does Paul Bonham rate an 11? There must be bonus points for twisted logic and extraordinarily long boring posts.
Don't worry about it John, you are definitely at least a 12.
PS: I see my "Rep Power" has suddenly somehow dropped from around 6 or 8 or so down to 0. Assuming that's not some sort of technical glitch -- or somebody just being an a**hole and clicking a bunch of -1s -- I'll take that as a reason not to post anymore.
You might visit your Settings page http://forum.chesstalk.com/usercp.php
and see when your received reps: Latest Reputation Received
I think every year here gives you +1 too.
It should be not the reason to not post here.
At the bottom of every message the star link increases or decreases the reputation of the poster.
Last edited by Egidijus Zeromskis; Wednesday, 18th October, 2017, 09:40 AM.
Reason: some corrections: you can see only to whom you gave, but not who gave you.
PS: I see my "Rep Power" has suddenly somehow dropped from around 6 or 8 or so down to 0. Assuming that's not some sort of technical glitch -- or somebody just being an a**hole and clicking a bunch of -1s -- I'll take that as a reason not to post anymore.
Your rep appeared as zero to me, too. So I gave you a rep and then you appeared as nine. Mysterious.
I tend to agree with your general opinion on this though Victor P makes a good counter-argument, imo. One thing seems very clear to me: no way would someone like Ivanchuk or Aronian, even if they showed up in a Speedo, be subjected to this. They are high-profile players from strong federations.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Your rep appeared as zero to me, too. So I gave you a rep and then you appeared as nine. Mysterious.
I tend to agree with your general opinion on this though Victor P makes a good counter-argument, imo. One thing seems very clear to me: no way would someone like Ivanchuk or Aronian, even if they showed up in a Speedo, be subjected to this. They are high-profile players from strong federations.
Rep Power ... LOL!
Our Canadian team should play in hoodie with team logos, t-shirts (with an large image of Anton), Bermuda shorts and sneakers ...team captain to wear a well pressed suit.
Do people even care about rep power? It's not used for anything here, is it? (In some other forums, you need a certain level of rep power to access certain areas of the forums)
Fundraising for a team may prove difficult if half the potential donors think we should boycott...
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