Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

[Zeljko Kitich]

I'm going to make a suggestion re offering draws and although I hate to generalize suggest we teach juniors the rules re draw offers. The reason I say juniors is everytime I've experienced the following it has been juniors. I'm as guilty as the next person since I was the coordinator for a junior chess program at the Y in Hamilton for 3 years and probably didn't teach this either.

The scenario goes like this, the opponent says draw, sticks out their hand over the board expecting you (pressuring you?) to shake their hand and accept a draw, in the meantime they are blocking the board and blocking you from moving. It could be at any point in the game, could be in the middle of a complex middle game with sharp tactics and most of the pieces still on the board or a lost position for them as has happened to me more than once. You then want to look at and record their last move and the position to decide if you want a draw but they keep holding their hand over the board expecting you to agree to the draw. One tournament I was in the opponent waved their hand away to which the reply came 'Is that a no?', its a no if the opponent says no or if they make a move, there is no requirment to shake your hand right away or to verbally reply at all. And the less talking the better so as not to disturbe the other players. A discussion on why its a draw is not the thing to do under the CFC rules. I really don't know if you are offering me a draw because you just blundered then realized it and think you can bamboozle me into accepting a draw.

What I have seen others do including adults is offer a draw without making their move & thereby insisting on a verbal answer and appearing as not going to move until they get that answer.

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

Actually you should only offer a draw in one specific way. You make your move on the board, say something along the lines of "I offer a draw" and press the clock.

If the person offering the draw is doing anything distracting call the TD over. This can include offering a draw when it is not your move, for example. The offer is still valid but if my opponent was making a habit of it, I'd call in the TD out of principle.

My standing response to a draw offer is "I will think about it."

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

My standing response to a draw offer is "I will think about it."

What do you do then? Wait 5 or 10 moves until you're losing and accept? :)

My rule of thumb is if I think I'm losing, offer a draw. If I get a draw offer I spend time trying to figure out why my opponent thinks he's losing. Sometimes a weaker opponent will offer or accept a draw, when he is in a better position, simply because he chokes.

[Vlad Rekhson]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

What I have seen others do including adults is offer a draw without making their move & thereby insisting on a verbal answer and appearing as not going to move until they get that answer.

This is a perfect time to answer with: "I will think about it." Or just not answer at all. Then you can just sit there until they realize that it might be a good idea for them to move.

For all other cases its probably polite to acknowledge your opponent's request of a draw by saying something to the effect of "let me think about it." Even though it is not required by the rules. In the past I didn't do that, but than in the after party of the 2005 Canadian Open, somehow this matter came up and both GM Bologan and Shabalov were pretty adamant about the need to acknowledge your opponent's offer. I've been doing it ever since.

[John Brown]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

Sounds like we are getting too Old.

I had the exact two experiences in two of my games in Kitchener. One player offered a draw and extended his hand in front of me. The Other offered a draw without making a move.

I'm usually pretty polite about those things so it does not annoy me.

I think that all organizers should have rules applying to draw offers etc. posted at the crosstables or Round Pairings and it should be brought to the attention of all players before the Rounds start so that all players can read the rules and ask the organizers about any questions they may have. This is very helpful to newcomers to the tournament chess experience.
I hate it when something comes up in a game and a new player to the game gets into a problem because they only came to play chess and then an experienced player starts throwing rules at them. These experienced players sometimes scare away new players and beginners because of the rules.
Unless the rule is going to effect the game or position in some way, I usually wait until postmortem or after we leave the playing area and tell my opponent that he cannot do what he did over the board at tournaments.
I don't want to win a game on a new player to the game just because they are not razor sharp on the rules.


What annoys me is when the juniors and adults slam the clocks
when they are not in time trouble or they slam pieces down on squares when they make a move.
I can see these two habits if you are in time trouble. But please don't do it when you are not.
It not only disturbs your opponent It also disturbs the players near your board. These clock slammers and piece slammers need to have time penalties applied each time they do it and then maybe they will be broken of the this disrupting habit.
In one in Toronto my opponent kept slamming the clock ( which was mine I might add) . I looked up at him and said " I hope you you have enough money in your pocket to pay for my clock if you break it."
The slamming stopped and we had great game. I think it ended in a draw and we have been great chess buddies ever since.

It is nice to have all the stuff provided but I do notice when equipment is provided some players feel it is a time for them to abuse the equipment.
My experience is that players tend to be slightly more considerate to the equipment when they know it is the opponent's.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

I agree with you John, I'm not a rules pusher either (heck I know only the basic ones myself) and I too strive to be polite. I guess I am getting old in that I find distractions like this a bit off putting, especially if its two players beside you. You wonder why they keep their hand over the board, a bit of politeness back is nice too.

[John Coleman]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

Saying "I'll think about it" acknowledges the draw offer.

One time I was playing an elderly gentleman, made my move, offered a draw, and pressed the clock. He made no response at all at all to the draw offer, and I was wondering, did he maybe not hear me?

I teach the kids the "official way" to offer a draw. As an aside, one of the local kids just placed high in the U1400 section of the Canadian Amateur, winning two and drawing five! A future Kramnik, no doubt.

JC

[Erwin Casareno]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

Actually you should only offer a draw in one specific way. You make your move on the board, say something along the lines of "I offer a draw" and press the clock.

If the person offering the draw is doing anything distracting call the TD over. This can include offering a draw when it is not your move, for example. The offer is still valid but if my opponent was making a habit of it, I'd call in the TD out of principle.

My standing response to a draw offer is "I will think about it."

In round 9 of the 2009 Canadian Zonal, I was playing black against Joey Qin. Fron the Black side of a Sicilian Sozin, i offered a draw -but doing what Hal Bond advised me to do (as pointed out by Chris above).

I played my 10th move on the board, said to Joey, "I offer a draw" (in a soft voice so as not to disturb the nearby players), then pressed the clock. I stood up so he could assess the position while i watched the games in the top board. After about 20 minutes, i returned to the board and Joey is still thinking. I sat down quietly and waited for his move. When he moved, Joey said, "Not yet" , which is a very polite way to decline my draw offer.

Previously, when my opponent offer me a draw, my favorite line is, "there is still a lot of play on the board", or "let me try something here", or simply, i want to continue playing". I prefer these sentences to acknowledge the draw offer rather than say nothing.

[Bill Evans]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

I think the best is not to say anything. Anything you say to your opp or anything he says to you can be construed or misconstrued!? as a draw offer. part of the reason these rules have come into being is the language difficulties in International tourneys.

Simple rule....don't speak to your opponent.

Here is a story from a tournament game a few years ago. My opponent makes a move by slamming down a piece knocking over the entire queenside. hits my clock he sets up the pieces on wrong squares . I start his clock....he hits my clock back with the pieces still on foul squares. Finally we get the position legal after him wacking my clock several times.
I'm a bit rattled...while considering my move he says "Draw Evans" in a voice you could hear across the room. I said nothing...after 30 seconds he shouts again did you hear me Evans.... then to get my attention he grabbed my scoresheet and Wrote on it 1/2 1/2???
Well....in a couple moves I blundered a Rook and had to resign.
I offer my belated apologies to the small children who were around....they learned some new words that day.

[Ferdinand Supsup]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

I think the best is not to say anything.

I like Bill Evans' idea.

Advantage being that your opponent is giving you a psychological edge. (1) he is only contended and happy with a draw and not playing for a win. (2) he might be tired from the last game or not in the mood to play chess. (3) His position is unfavorable. (4) That he has a conflicting scheduled appointment or some other reasons.

I usually make the draw offer before I make my move! The reason behind was that I want an immediate reply on my terms and not my opponent's discretion. If my opponent ask me to make my next move, it simply mean that he is temporarily declining it. However, if he is going to accept immediately after making my move. That's fine for me, However if you are going to offer a draw (make the move, press clock and make the offer), and he replies to think it over, do you want to acknowledge the draw acceptance when your opponent is going to spend his remaining time on his clock and at his discretion? No! How long will it take for your opponent to accept or reject an offer in this case?

I don't know the rule in offering draws but I have the reason of doing my own way. I hate draws anyway! I offer draws when the conclusion of the game is very obvious.

Thank You!

[Kai G. Gauer]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

In round 9 of the 2009 Canadian Zonal, I was playing black against Joey Qin. Fron the Black side of a Sicilian Sozin, i offered a draw -but doing what Hal Bond advised me to do (as pointed out by Chris above).

In my round 6 of the Canadian Amateur, Mr Chuchin offered a draw on his move to me, before I even got up to assess what the current positions were on the other 2 top boards in the section, since my thoughts were that my result of accepting a draw or playing on would determine whether I'd pair up for the final round. First, he said something like: "draw?" quietly as I got up on his move, then looked for about two or three minutes (in a 2+ / hour / player time control, we both had only used about max 45 minutes apiece), & he offered the draw again, but with my back temporarily turned & my hand out to indicate "wait please". He asked again, "do you want a draw", but soon after, about another minute, he wanted to rescind a draw offer (the next board going on was about two boards up in the next section, a table away & I was watching on another empthy table, a table away). No, wait, it's not a draw", & "no - er, I mean yes - draw?" were his last words before I turned around for a moment. I was also thinking about going off for a walk to the bathroom to think about it, since he was still to move.

I reminded him (after another minute or so's thought & seeing a bit of progress in the Dorgo game) that "you offered a draw, - & I accept" (it was still his move, & turned out to be a probable draw, but with the computer liking my initiative at that point & a draw on my board & potentially won position (as I saw it at that point) by Mr Dorgo's opponent gave me good chances to pair up). The players on that board from the next section up seemed to be interested the most in my opponent's draw offer, but I was probably going to take it beforehand.

As far as offering draws have gone when the opponent is not there, I have head about arbiters allowing the use of something like a board number card or their own scoresheet with an equal sign at the move (or some similar symbol that indicates a draw offer) being placed in front of the clock's display or in the centre of the board as being a way to offer a draw, play a move & start the clock. This gives the player offering a draw a chance to make a washroom break as well, without his own clock running. Placing the card back to its normal position could then indicate not necessarily a draw refusal, but that the opponent still wishes to continue thinking about it, or wait for the other player to return, & continue assessing the board position. Obviously, no problem occurs for the draw aceptance in that case, since words such as "I accept" could always still be said when the opponent returns.

The card makes it not necessary for a player to look at the opposing scoresheet to see whether on returning to an empty board of whether a move + "=" sign was inscribed at that moves point, so as to indicate a draw offer. Many opponents don't really indicate this notation on their scoresheet too often, as it also occurs rarely.

Kai

....

I played my 10th move on the board, said to Joey, "I offer a draw" (in a soft voice so as not to disturb the nearby players), then pressed the clock. I stood up so he could assess the position while i watched the games in the top board. After about 20 minutes, i returned to the board and Joey is still thinking. I sat down quietly and waited for his move. When he moved, Joey said, "Not yet" , which is a very polite way to decline my draw offer.

Previously, when my opponent offer me a draw, my favorite line is, "there is still a lot of play on the board", or "let me try something here", or simply, i want to continue playing". I prefer these sentences to acknowledge the draw offer rather than say nothing.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

I like Bill Evans' idea.

Advantage being that your opponent is giving you a psychological edge. (1) he is only contended and happy with a draw and not playing for a win. (2) he might be tired from the last game or not in the mood to play chess. (3) His position is unfavorable. (4) That he has a conflicting scheduled appointment or some other reasons.

I usually make the draw offer before I make my move! The reason behind was that I want an immediate reply on my terms and not my opponent's discretion. If my opponent ask me to make my next move, it simply mean that he is temporarily declining it. However, if he is going to accept immediately after making my move. That's fine for me, However if you are going to offer a draw (make the move, press clock and make the offer), and he replies to think it over, do you want to acknowledge the draw acceptance when your opponent is going to spend his remaining time on his clock and at his discretion? No! How long will it take for your opponent to accept or reject an offer in this case?

I don't know the rule in offering draws but I have the reason of doing my own way. I hate draws anyway! I offer draws when the conclusion of the game is very obvious.

Thank You!

The rules are quite clear about your method - it is illegal.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

If my opponent offered a draw on his move & it looked like a deliberate thing as Ferdinand indicates , I would do nothing - its not a legal draw offer. I would let his clock run if that's what he wants to do. Perfect time to go for a coffee or take a bathroom run. If when I get back he has made a move he can let me know if he's offering a draw. Then I'll consider it with my clock running & with all the time I think I need to decline or accept. I hate draws too unless I really have to take them.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

If my opponent offered a draw on his move & it looked like a deliberate thing as Ferdinand indicates , I would do nothing - its not a legal draw offer. I would let his clock run if that's what he wants to do. Perfect time to go for a coffee or take a bathroom run. If when I get back he has made a move he can let me know if he's offering a draw. Then I'll consider it with my clock running & with all the time I think I need to decline or accept. I hate draws too unless I really have to take them.

Actually, I would say your position is a little stronger than what you indicate. He is not allowed to retract his draw offer until you have responded by answering or by making your move. So, I would argue his making a move does not alter the validity of the draw offer and that it still stands.

[Ferdinand Supsup]

Re: Rules/Etiquette for offering draws

Actually, I would say your position is a little stronger than what you indicate. He is not allowed to retract his draw offer until you have responded by answering or by making your move. So, I would argue his making a move does not alter the validity of the draw offer and that it still stands.

I've checked the FIDE Rules today on what is the proper way to offer a draw to clarify this matter and it says:

Article 9: The drawn game

9.1


a. The rules of a competition may specify that players cannot agree to a draw, whether in less than a specified number of moves or at all, without the consent of the arbiter.

b. If the rules of a competition allow a draw agreement the following apply:

1. A player wishing to offer a draw shall do so after having made a move on the chessboard and before stopping his clock and starting the opponent’s clock. An offer at any other time during play is still valid but Article 12.6 must be considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it orally, rejects it by touching a piece with the intention of moving or capturing it, or the game is concluded in some other way.
2. The offer of a draw shall be noted by each player on his scoresheet with a symbol. (See Appendix C.13)
3. A claim of a draw under Article 9.2, 9.3 or 10.2 shall be considered to be an offer of a draw.


Article 9 of the link below:

http://www.fide.com/component/handbo...4&view=article

However, it did not specify the length of time, an opponent can claim or reject the draw offer. Since the offer can not be withdrawn, then he can actually use all his remaining time for analysis before making his decision. Hence, It's better not to offer a draw and keep quite and wait for your opponent to make the offer. Hence, it will be to your disadvantage to offer a draw to an opponent. ;)