Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

[Bob Armstrong]

I think that tournaments are key to keeping existing CFC members and getting new CFC members. And for that, we need 2 things :

1. organizers of clubs; and
2. orgainizers of weekend tournaments, etc..

I'd like to focus on # 1, since that is what I know best. This means first of all in my mind, chess clubs that play regularly rated tournaments all year long ( with whatever other variety is needed to keep club members coming out ).

I will use one of my chess clubs as an example: Scarborough CC has 50 players + playing 5 rated tournaments per year ( a couple are 8 rounds, and one 9 rounds ). We are closed for July and August. Of those 50 players, about 10 are juniors.

Let's do some math. I will leave the juniors out ( though that will add a bit to the club total $$ to CFC annually ). That means re tournaments fees for the adults: 40 players x 5 tournaments x $3 rating fee = $ 620 rating fees from SCC alone. And there are 40 players x $ 36 annual adult fee = $ 1,440 membership fees. That’s a total remittance to CFC annually of $ 2,060/ yr from 1 club ( and, as I said we only operate 10 months of the year, and we have some long tournaments ).

If Canada could get 50 clubs to do this, it would be $ 103,000. Even 25 clubs would be $ 51, 500 ( and the total CFC revenue in 2007-8 from memberships and rating fees ( club and weekend tournaments ) was approx. $ 75,000 ). So chess clubs could contribute 3/4 of the funding needed to run the CFC! [ And I haven’t even started to add in the revenue ( memberships and rating fees ) from weekend tournaments yet ].

Now I know SCC has a very large population to draw on. And I know it is one of the more successful clubs currently in Canada. But the above figures show how important chess clubs running consecutive CFC-rated tournaments could be to CFC's future.

I think this is a clear indication, that once the CFC restructures itself, and gets into the black again, a priority must be to determine how CFC can assist local chess clubs to flourish.

Bob

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

Let's do some math.

Bob,

You should recalculate future ratings revenue based on Motion 2007-01 (electronic submission + savings for clubs).

"That chess clubs may pay a fixed $50 yearly rating fee, entitling them to rate any club events for no additional fee, as long as such events are submitted fully electronically, do not have any entry fees above club and CFC membership fees, and do not have cash or equivalent prizes."

Thus $50 instead of $620 should be.

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

I thought we changed that to $100 a year. Could be mistaken, it's been a couple years.

The whole point of that though was to help sell more memberships, because it would be easier for clubs to make all their events CFC-rated.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

A minor additional note: Scarborough CC loses on average 5 players a tournament, but have been replacing them with 5 new members. So that means 5 tournaments x 5 new members x $ 36 annual CFC fee = $ 900. Add that to the $ 1,440 membership fees I calculated above, and SCC remits $ 2,340 per year in CFC membership dues.

The new members doesn't affect the ratings fees calculation ( though I goofed the math, and it should have been $ 600, not $ 620 ).

Also, I'm checking with our SCC Treasurer if SCC takes advantage of the motion Egis alerted me to, of a flat fee of $ 50 / yr. for rating fees for all chess club tournaments. I love our club giving the CFC money, but a bargain is a bargain !!

Bob

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Chess Clubs' Tournament Rating Fees

Hi Egis:

I have been advised by the Scarborough CC Vice-President, and former CFC President, Maurice Smith, that the motion you refer to is not yet effective, as the tournament rating software necessary has not yet been put in place by the CFC. He noted to me:

" the comments when the motion was passed were
a} from Chris Mallon who moved the motion
"Given that electronic submissions are not yet available there is plenty of time to consider options."
b} from Lyle Craver
"Governors should note that this motion doesn't come into effect until there's a prescribed electronic submission format-this could take a while!" "

So I guess SCC is handing in to CFC $ 600 rating fees per year still.:D

Bob

[Jason Lohner]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

I come from a small town (salmon Arm BC) where we have a small chess club
(approximately 6-8 people a week). Not one of them is remotely interested in the CFC. Several of them use to play in tournaments but not one of them is interested anymore. Your plan will only work for the hardcore players. What the CFC needs to do is first attract the people who have left and second attract the CASUAL player. Casual people aren't interested in tournaments because most casual players see tournaments for the hard core only. Now with your new 'plan' the few casual people I know have told me that they will quit playing the one/two tournaments per year if they have to join the CFC.

The problem with your idea is that it will probably work for large cities but ignores everyone else. For anyone in Salmon arm to play in a tournament you have to travel quite a ways to play. I have to travel 5 hours to go to a tournament in the Vancouver area and a couple hours to vernon/kelowna. Even as much as I love chess, Im wondering if its worth playing (travel time, cost etc...) in tournaments anymore. The last couple tournaments in Vernon had 6 and 10 people... Only the hardcore will show up.

What the CFC needs is a plan to entice the Casual player, the people who play online because they enjoy the game and don't feel that they can go to a tournament. These Casual players are the Vast majority of people who play chess.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

Hi Jason:

You are obviously right that the majority of the Canadians who play chess are " casual " players. They play for free with their friends, or perhaps play online on some free server ( or maybe they join an internet club like ICC or WCL ). I would love to attract them to CFC membership, but I admit to being at a loss as to what the CFC could offer them that would make them part with $$ for a membership. My son and daughter play casual chess with their friends - they don't seem to need anything from the CFC to do the chess they are doing. And many chess clubs already do take the step of trying to get casual players into clubs, by offering skittles at the club, where someone can play unrated chess not in a tournament - just some friendly games with other club members. So again, they don't need anything from the CFC to do that.

Do you have any " plan " in mind for the CFC to follow to try to recruit them to membership?? I can only see CFC trying to encourage them to take the next step and try " tournament " chess. If they can get casual players to buy into that, then the CFC has something to offer - the national rating. And once the casual player is converted to tournament chess, there is a chance to argue to him/her that part of the membership supports chess at all levels in Canada ( international, national and local ), and that the CFC fills an important role in promoting chess in Canada, at all levels.

But your point appears to be that convincing the casual player to go " tournament " is an almost impossible task. I agree it is difficult. But I feel that the CFC/organizers have been too narrow in their offering of tournaments. I think tournaments more geared to " casuals " are possible, and might be more inviting to them than the standard tournament we are used to.

But I'm interested in hearing others opinions on Jason's projected goal of offering casuals something other than tournament chess, that will get them to join the CFC. Any ideas?

Bob

[Kerry Liles]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

Maybe the CFC *should* be about the serious club/tournament player? I don't see how the CFC can be all things to all people. The CFC can offer assistance in many forms for clubs or schools etc. People who play just for fun have no need for the CFC and vice versa (perhaps, not to sound harsh).

Promoting the game/art/pastime should certainly be a fundamental part of the CFC's mandate, as should liason with FIDE etc. It would be pointless for the CFC to try to manage all aspects of chess and chess players.

[Jason Lohner]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

Maybe the CFC *should* be about the serious club/tournament player? I don't see how the CFC can be all things to all people. The CFC can offer assistance in many forms for clubs or schools etc. People who play just for fun have no need for the CFC and vice versa (perhaps, not to sound harsh).

Then the CFC should get used to reduced revenues. I personally think that this focus only on the top players is the reason for the reduction in CFC memberships. If the CFC actually wants to get more members, then perhaps they should switch the focus to this vastly larger group of players. The CFC isnt going to increase membership by catering to the small minority of top players.

The problem with the CFC reminds me of the 90's in BC. During the 90's BC was the only province or state in resession in all of North America. In the early 90's because the old Social Credit party split apart, the NDP got into power for most of the 90's. The NDP cut the 'tax loops' for business (CFC = Tournament memberships) and businesses fled the province (CFC = reduced memberships). Even Ralph Klein said that Albertas biggest ally in getting Alberta on track was BC's NDP government. After vote splitting for two terms the 'right wing' parties decided to unite behind the liberal party and demolished the NDP in the next election. The Liberals immediately cut both business and personal tax rates and surprise!!! the province's economic situation completely reversed. The lesson here? Increasing rates (ie taxes) usually ends up with fewer players. By cutting the Tournament membership and forcing casual players to make a choice... pay for full membership or quit will force players elsewhere (just like businesses left for alberta) Want to increase casual players? REDUCE the tournament membership fee! (cut taxes!) and maybe those people who would like to try playing a tournament and those people who want to play in their local tournaments will continue to play.

Perhaps the CFC should consider starting an internet server. Getting a CFC membership would gain access to this server. I know the USCF tried this and it failed, but I don't know of the quality of this server. It doesn't have to be just a real time game server either, CC chess could be played as well. Im pretty sure that casual players (who have already fled to the internet to play) would be enticed to a Canadian Chess server. I know on Chessworld.net Canada is ranked 4th of all the nations who play on this U.K. server! Games on this server don't have to be CFC rated, or the CFC could have a seperate internet rating.

Just my 2Cents worth :)

J.Lohner

[Kerry Liles]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

By the way, when I said serious club/tournament players, it was not a reference to the top players - there are plenty of serious tournament and club players who are from (say) 1600 up...

Anyway, the CFC as an organization is hard pressed these last 20 years or so to organize even a 2-car funeral... Starting up an Internet chess server to compete with ICC (and others) seems like a poor business plan to me (in general).

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

Why does it have to compete with ICC? Why can it not simply be a service provided to members? Who can use it or not as they see fit?

[Kerry Liles]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

Well, I think it *will* compete with ICC in the sense that people who want to play online will likely prefer to play on ICC where there would likely be a wider choice of opponents etc. Of course, there is no reason for the CFC to not have a server where members can play, I just don't see it as a revenue-generator per se.

[Jason Lohner]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

what it will offer is a cheap place to play. Right now the CFC offers absolutely nothing to the casual player. How do you sell sell memberships when there isnt any reason to join? a membership to the CFC cost less per year than an ICC membership ($60/yr) so It might entice people to play on a CFC server instead and the only way to play on the CFC server would be to Join the CFC. Just think of the possibilities of clubs across the country playing in teams against each other...

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

Exactly, when I've popped the idea up before I never thought of it as a revenue generator, more of just a benefit of membership. Some people just can't manage to see it that way for some reason...

[Luke Peristy]

Re: Chess Clubs & CFC Revenue

I have been thinking for months now that the CFC should try to get some sort of online, ICC-like chess club/website going. I'm not sure how much the overhead, or initial startup fee would be on something like that, but a website such as FICS seems to survive nicely despite the very low membership cost. I also agree with Chris that it should be another reason to join the CFC, rather than a revenue generator. It costs $60/yr to join ICC and a bit more than that to join Playchess.com, and that's still more money than to join the CFC. So in addition to getting a membership to an online chess site, you can play in CFC Tournaments OTB as well. I think that a skilled coder could likely convert a program such as FICS's Jin or BabasChess to run on a different server than FICS, so you wouldn't even have to worry about creating a new GUI, just setting up and running a server. I'm just saying that it's not outside the realm of possibility to do.

This is all part of my pipedream I call, "If I owned and controlled the CFC and had lots of money to throw at it." or "If I was the Kirsan Ilyumzhinov of the CFC." Other things I would do include offering financial backing to tournament directors who want to organize tournaments. I say one of the main reasons not a lot of Weekend Swiss tournaments are organized is because of the risk factor. Tournament halls are expensive to rent, and if the tournament doesn't break even then it all comes out of the TD's pocket. If the TD could rely on the CFC for a financial cushion, then all of the risk of organizing a tournament would be gone. Obviously, there would have to be steps taken to ensure that you couldn't defraud the system, but this is my pipedream and I see no reason why practicality should enter into it. The way I see it, less risk = more tournaments = more revenue. Another thing I would do would be to set up a Canadian Open Board whose job it would be to organize and run the Canadian Open every year. (For a price, of course. ;-) ) That plan is for another day, though...