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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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Ok, clearly you are pretty upset about all this and I guess I will back off now and let you and Hal argue about it. I would not be surprised though if little of value comes from that dialogue.
I realize the composition of the CFC Executive changes (usually) from year to year, so simply blaming 'the CFC' is futile, but I was implying that the CFC should establish proper guidelines and standards for the operation of the events I mentioned - I thought that much was clear.
I also think that if Hal had not stepped forward there would have been no Closed for you or anyone else to win and the Canadian representative could have been decided by some simple Rock, Paper, Scissors...
Rock, paper, scissors actually has more appeal than chess itself. It's on TV in North America. It could even be making money.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Here we go again, the endless arguments and questions as to: where is all the money for chess?...
Mr Bonham,
You completely miss my points. Read me again. Without trying to offend you I find your analysis of chess completely off the mark, typical of someone who think he has an idea of what he is talking about. I suggest that you keep your message board interventions for those boards dealing with topics that you do know, if there are any.
You completely miss my points. Read me again. Without trying to offend you I find your analysis of chess completely off the mark, typical of someone who think he has an idea of what he is talking about. I suggest that you keep your message board interventions for those boards dealing with topics that you do know, if there are any.
Mr. Hebert (since we're being formal), I believe it is my privilege to at least express an opinion on this forum. You can ask me not to invervene in your threads, and I will consider your elitist request.
... processing....
... processing....
Oh, I'm sorry - REQUEST DENIED. Well, at least for this one last time. Because Mr. Hebert, you said "without trying to offend", and then you slipped in that last line, something about me limiting my responses to things I know about, "if there are any". Ouch! Oh, Mr. Hebert.... what could I look forward to should I invite you to actually TRY and offend me? Or wait, that would confuse you....
I read your posts again as you requested, and yes, you are complaining about lack of sponsorship and very mediocre environment for the playing of your prestigious event. Sorry! I tried not to read those parts, but there they were, staring at me in black and white. Trying to say "you missed my point" is so typical of someone who thinks he can write controversial statements and even attack someone personally and then deflect away any criticism. And then, of course, the ultimate refuge of the foolhardy and the elite, wave your hand in dismissal and claim your critics don't know anything of what they write.
Now, Mr. Hebert, let's cut to the chase: at least by day 2 of this event, you must have taken note to yourself of these atrocities. Did you at any time during the event approach Hal Bond to take up these issues? And if you did, did he ignore you? Or, did you at any time take up the initiative to put up the lacking signs yourself?
If the answers, as I suspect, are "no", then Mr. Hebert, you did Hal Bond and yourself a grave disservice by bringing up lack of signs, lack of demo boards, whatever else, AFTER the event and on this PUBLIC FORUM. You then say you are disappointed at Hal Bond's response, ignoring the fact that you just publicly incriminated and embarrassed him.
After knocking Hal Bond to the ground from behind, you then say none of this is personal. Hey, I'm just taking a page from your book. You said someone has to point out the guilty if anything is to be done. Well, you're good and guilty. I think from what you have done, you should lose any respect you might have had from your chessplaying peers. I would hope all of this would make you persona non grata at future Closed events, until you publicly apologize to Hal Bond.
As to what I know, you are of course free to find my analysis of chess completely off the mark. What I've written about corporate sponsorship of classical chess events in North America is my opinion. So far my opinion has not been proved wrong. If a day comes when there is a professional chess tour where the prize money reaches half the levels at the World Series of Poker and there is TV coverage of each event on a major network, then I will judge my opinion to be proven wrong. I know that's not really the minimum standards you were writing about, but let's be honest, even to get back to your minimum standards in this deteriorating economy is extremely unlikely. Corporate sponsors want at least an advertising return, and chess events just can't pull in the number of people to make it worthwhile when consumers are saving more and spending less. The worst is yet to come.
Now.... go ahead, try NOT to offend me again, but please try HARDER this time!
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Now.... go ahead, try NOT to offend me again, but please try HARDER this time!
Mr Bonham,
If lightning would strike you, suddenly making you realize how silly you have been, you would crawl under a rock shamefully and stay there for at least six months.
If lightning would strike you, suddenly making you realize how silly you have been, you would crawl under a rock shamefully and stay there for at least six months.
And if lightning were to strike YOU, maybe you could answer the pertinent questions! Not to mention learn some etiquette (you should at least KNOW that word!) and some professionalism.
Did you at any time during the event approach Hal Bond to take up these issues? And if you did, did he ignore you?
Can someone who knows how to set up a vote on this site set up the following question:
Should Jean Hebert apologize publicly on this thread to Hal Bond? Yes or no.
It would be great if people could vote anonomously, since Jean's credentials seem to preclude any one of his peers from denouncing him as they should.
Pansies!
Well, I've had enough of this and all the other tempests in a teapot on this site.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
And if lightning were to strike YOU, maybe you could answer the pertinent questions! Not to mention learn some etiquette (you should at least KNOW that word!) and some professionalism.
Since that english is not my mother's tongue, you do come up at times with words I hardly know like "asshole" and "anonomously". However this does not convince me that your questions are "pertinent", that you are entitled to answers from me or anybody else and that you actually care about those answers.
Nevertheless I will give one big answer, which even for a non-chess player with a fair mind should pretty easy to understand. I did not get into discussions with Hal during the event about the shortcomings of his organizing duties for two good reasons. First of all it was already too late for some things to be corrected. Some of them need to be prepared beforehand. Secondly and more importantly that might (and now I am even more convinced of that) have led to unpleasant exchanges and bad blood that would have changed very little but greatly disturbed my concentration and ruined the tournament for me. My only task during that event, like all the other players, was to play chess as well as I could. For this you need as much peace of mind as possible. This I believe I managed to do quite well despite the disturbances caused by what I was seeing daily.
The organizer's task on the other hand was to set up decent financial conditions for the players (which was not done, in all fairness quite usual for the Canadian Closed), to make the tournament run smoothly ( which was mostly done thanks largely to the excellent conduct of all players), and finally but most important in my mind to PROMOTE the event (also called promoting chess), before, during and after, on which aspect it was a total disgrace. I will repeat: no demo boards, no names on the tables to identify players, no set up for spectators at all, no signs in, out or around the playing site, no internet presence worth mentionning and no daily gamefile. It was simply impossible for outsiders (or even for on site spectators) to follow this tournament properly. For a first time organizer doing a monday-night club level tournament, this could be forgiven... if he takes responsibility. This has not happened yet. According to Mr Bond, the CFC let him down, people quit on him and the sponsors he didn't approach failed to show up.
Wow, I just read thru the whole thread for the first time. It started out a little snippy, then we started to get some constructive comments, but alas it again degenerated into chaos. sigh.
I know Bob's keeping score, so add one to the non governor average CFC member column.
Finally, thanks to Hal Bond for running the Closed, warts and all, when nobody else would.
Mr. Hebert (since we're being formal), I believe it is my privilege to at least express an opinion on this forum. You can ask me not to invervene in your threads, and I will consider your elitist request.
... processing....
... processing....
Oh, I'm sorry - REQUEST DENIED. Well, at least for this one last time. Because Mr. Hebert, you said "without trying to offend", and then you slipped in that last line, something about me limiting my responses to things I know about, "if there are any". Ouch! Oh, Mr. Hebert.... what could I look forward to should I invite you to actually TRY and offend me? Or wait, that would confuse you....
I read your posts again as you requested, and yes, you are complaining about lack of sponsorship and very mediocre environment for the playing of your prestigious event. Sorry! I tried not to read those parts, but there they were, staring at me in black and white. Trying to say "you missed my point" is so typical of someone who thinks he can write controversial statements and even attack someone personally and then deflect away any criticism. And then, of course, the ultimate refuge of the foolhardy and the elite, wave your hand in dismissal and claim your critics don't know anything of what they write.
Now, Mr. Hebert, let's cut to the chase: at least by day 2 of this event, you must have taken note to yourself of these atrocities. Did you at any time during the event approach Hal Bond to take up these issues? And if you did, did he ignore you? Or, did you at any time take up the initiative to put up the lacking signs yourself?
If the answers, as I suspect, are "no", then Mr. Hebert, you did Hal Bond and yourself a grave disservice by bringing up lack of signs, lack of demo boards, whatever else, AFTER the event and on this PUBLIC FORUM. You then say you are disappointed at Hal Bond's response, ignoring the fact that you just publicly incriminated and embarrassed him.
After knocking Hal Bond to the ground from behind, you then say none of this is personal. Hey, I'm just taking a page from your book. You said someone has to point out the guilty if anything is to be done. Well, you're good and guilty. I think from what you have done, you should lose any respect you might have had from your chessplaying peers. I would hope all of this would make you persona non grata at future Closed events, until you publicly apologize to Hal Bond.
As to what I know, you are of course free to find my analysis of chess completely off the mark. What I've written about corporate sponsorship of classical chess events in North America is my opinion. So far my opinion has not been proved wrong. If a day comes when there is a professional chess tour where the prize money reaches half the levels at the World Series of Poker and there is TV coverage of each event on a major network, then I will judge my opinion to be proven wrong. I know that's not really the minimum standards you were writing about, but let's be honest, even to get back to your minimum standards in this deteriorating economy is extremely unlikely. Corporate sponsors want at least an advertising return, and chess events just can't pull in the number of people to make it worthwhile when consumers are saving more and spending less. The worst is yet to come.
Now.... go ahead, try NOT to offend me again, but please try HARDER this time!
During the tournament it was too late to complain. TOO LATE.
This event was very badly managed by the organizer.
So much imcompetence is an insult to all the participants. If you invite people for dinner and then served them like you do for your dogs without Entry Meal, wine, etc then this is an insult.
Yes food dog is better than nothing but is it our STANDARDS here in Canada?
Come on, do like International Master, Champion of Canada (august 2009) and Quebec Champion (January 2009) Jean Hébert said: talk about something you know if there is any.
Last edited by Carl Bilodeau; Sunday, 23rd August, 2009, 08:23 AM.
Wow, I just read thru the whole thread for the first time. It started out a little snippy, then we started to get some constructive comments, but alas it again degenerated into chaos. sigh.
I know Bob's keeping score, so add one to the non governor average CFC member column.
Finally, thanks to Hal Bond for running the Closed, warts and all, when nobody else would.
You are the President? And you justify this kind of tournament and organizers? I would have expected your excuses in the name of the whole community. I expect profesionnalism from the president when he talks in our names.
What a shame. I did not want to intervene but seeing the president on this side of the track is so surprising..... who will want to become Grandmasters if the president is satisfied with this. Which father or mother will motivate his childrens? As a father of 3 players I find no motivation in your position for present elite and future elites. If you wanted to become president but have no friends to be able to manage a tournament correctly and not the personnality to bring professionnal organizers, sponsors, entreprenors like I am, please do something else. By saying that nobody wanted to do this tournament, you take no responsabilities at all for this big failure.
By the way, how come the Champion become governor? This is an insult to the Champion not a gift. When we know the tasks definition of CCF Governor!!! By giving this Governor title to the Champion it means that he is promoted to "Organizer". Ridiculous how amateur is everything I see from your federation here in this thread. He should refuse this Title. Come on, the future of the Champion each year should be to play chess, not taking decisions on chairs and posters!!!
INTERNATIONAL MASTERS AND GRANDMASTERS I present you my very sincere excuses in the name of the Canadian Chess and Quebec Chess community for the insult that have been done to you in those 9 days and the lack of respect and glamour this event showed.
GMs and IMs and all players in this tournament, you have to know that this lack of respect is not shared by the whole community. You deserve respect and all the honors like respectful country do normally.
Sorry for the Governor title that has been giving to the Canada's Champion, in no way this amateur spirit is the reflect of the community.
Internationnal Master Jean Hébert, Champion of Canada (won on august 2009) and Quebec Champion (won on january 2009), please accept these excuses personnaly. Thank you so much for this "coming out". It takes a lot of courage to reveal here the disgrace that has been done to the elite players. Keep informing us. Next year, if the CCF president accept the same complete insult to be done to you, as a businessman and a proud Canadian citizen, and to make sure it does not happen two consecutive years, I accept to take the lead to sue him for damage in the name of the community and the elite players. A president title comes with responsabilities... he made a big mistake this year, but he should not do that next year.
Elite players come to the Montreal Open Chess Championship where we see that respect is number one on the list. Forget about this disgrace and lack of glamour that has been done to your prestige by those amateurs and approved by the CCF president.
Carl
Last edited by Carl Bilodeau; Sunday, 23rd August, 2009, 09:56 AM.
You are the President? And you justify this kind of tournament and organizers? I would have expected your excuses in the name of the whole community. I expect profesionnalism from the president when he talks in our names.
Carl
Relax Carl. I am not the President, not a CFC Executive, not a CFC Governor. Not even a lowly CFC employee! Just a concerned citizen now.
When I was Executive Director I was constantly apologizing for all the shortcoming of the CFC. There is no dispute that CFC performance falls far short of expectations. The ugly truth is that resources (money and people) are in short supply. There are still a few brave souls that try and help. One of those is Hal Bond who stepped in at the 11th hour to run the show.
We all agree it wasn't pretty, and we all understand Jean's complaints, and congratulate him on his win.
Relax Carl. I am not the President, not a CFC Executive, not a CFC Governor. Not even a lowly CFC employee! Just a concerned citizen now.
When I was Executive Director I was constantly apologizing for all the shortcoming of the CFC. There is no dispute that CFC performance falls far short of expectations. The ugly truth is that resources (money and people) are in short supply. There are still a few brave souls that try and help. One of those is Hal Bond who stepped in at the 11th hour to run the show.
We all agree it wasn't pretty, and we all understand Jean's complaints, and congratulate him on his win.
Please forward my message to the new president.
It is not true that this tournament is better than nothing. I tell you all: Do quality or do nothing.
No Canada Closed would be a pity. But doing such a disgrace tournament to the elite is even worst for Canada chess. It gives a bad reputation to chess in Canada among players and the community. It breaks many intangible things and every businessman would tell you.
If we have no food for guess that we invite in our home we simply should not invite people instead of serving the dog's food saying "It is better than nothing". it is a lot worst than nothing because we break reputation and more.
This kind of organizer is not an organizer at all so we must not allow him do a important tournament even if real organizers do not show.
The lack of the president ability to bring people around him should make that we have no big tournaments instead of destroying chess prestige, erasing glamour and unflating the WILL in the hearts of players who wish to become Grandmasters and Internationnal Masters.
Without a Canadian Closed tournament we will look at our elite players go in the World Open and other events. THIS IS WHAT I CALL: BETTER THAN NOTHING because it creates nothing BUT IT BREAKS NOTHING NEITHER in our community.
Last edited by Carl Bilodeau; Sunday, 23rd August, 2009, 10:07 AM.
If I serve my guests dog food and yet they keep coming back for more, is it my fault or the guests? Perhaps my guests think that they deserve nothing better...
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
If I serve my guests dog food and yet they keep coming back for more, is it my fault or the guests? Perhaps my guests think that they deserve nothing better...
You got it all wrong. There is a treasure in the middle of the table callled "Canada Champion Title". So this is why some continue to go and probably why Jean Hébert will probably go for his dog food bowl next year too.
But monday 1500 chess fans will read in HPE free weekly newsletter the description of this tournament. These readers are Parents, Kids and players taking decisions on the future of their carreers in chess. Do you see the damage this Chess Organizer is doing with his dog food? Every Parent, player, kid will know what to expect if one day they try to become the Canada Champion.
I will translate some of the next week HPE in english for you all and post it here. It will bring it to 3000 chess fans.
If we have no sponsors then let the elite pay but at the least do the tournament correctly and professionnaly with publicity, ceremony, glamour, invitations, chairs, signs, etc, etc, etc.
What do you need to see the problem? You want all the participants to come down on Chesstalk to write how bad it was? You want all the parents that will refocus their kids on Tennis instead of Chess to write it down here on Chesstalk? You want some organizers down under this tournament tell you how bad mood it has on the whole chain of Canadians and Quebec tournaments on the long term? What do you need?
I will tell you a confidence: Personnaly I did not tell my wife about all this and I will not neither. I would demotivate her about chess.
Last edited by Carl Bilodeau; Sunday, 23rd August, 2009, 11:00 AM.
In a year or two there will be another Closed. Players will still sign up. They will still pay an entry fee. The CFC will still let almost anyone in with a pulse. They will continue to run tournaments this way because players allow themselves to be treated this way.
I don't know you, but from your writings I have to think that either you haven't been around long or you just don't understand about chess at the top in Canada.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
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