Canadian Closed - list of games I have

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Canadian Closed - list of games I have

The regulations for Zonals can be found at:

http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook?id=88&view=article

Recommendations for organizers of top-level tournaments
(7.1 A top-level tournament is defined as any event in the FIDE individual world championship cycle [e.g. a zonal such as the Canadian Closed] or a private tournament of at least category 10):
:

http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook?id=15&view=category

[Craig Sadler]

Re: Canadian Closed - list of games I have

9. Prize Fund
9.1 In every Zonal Tournament, at least 50% of the participants shall receive prizes.

9.2 The prize fund shall be at least 10,000 Swiss Francs for a Men's zonal tournament and at least 5,000 Swiss Francs for a Women's zonal tournament.

9.3 For a Sub-zonal tournament, the Zonal President shall decide the amount of the prize fund.

9.4 The first prize shall consist of at least 30% of the prize fund.

9.5 A federation, which constitutes a complete Zone, shall itself determine the amount of its prize fund.

9.6 If two or more players finish with equal scores, their prize money shall be shared equally between them.

10. Costs
10.1 Their national federations will meet the players' travelling costs; the organizing federation will pay for accommodation, meals and pocket money for the duration of the tournament.

10.1.1 Before the start of the tournament the organizers will inform the players of the exact amount of pocket money.

10.2 The organizers must provide free board and lodging for the Chief Arbiter, refund his travel costs and pay him a suitable honorarium plus pocket money for his work.

(CS : A swiss franc is almost on par with the Canadian $$$ as of August 24, 2009, 10000 CHF = $10134.85 C$)

[Carl Bilodeau]

Re: Canadian Closed - Sponsors, Standards et al

Jean, when you are dealing with PEOPLE, and not with inanimate chess pieces, YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER FEELINGS. You probably during the event chatted with Hal as if you were best friends, or at least as if nothing about his organizing was on your mind. Then a week or two after the event, you come out and trash him. That's just not right and I'm sure Hal was surprised and probably even hurt. You say it's not personal, but you totally ignore Hal Bond the person.

This is part of what I mean when I say that too much chess brings out the worst in people. You treat everything, even people, as if they are wooden chess pieces. Wrong, wrong, wrong!

When we do a public event the discussions and the critics are always made public. With not so much chess newspapers and not event a single mention on the FQE website here in Quebec of the tournament itself or the name of the winner, if our HPE editor does'nt talk about it in every aspect then it will be complete silence and this organizer will repeat the same each year.

Hal Bond, the person, insulted our top level players for nine days. I think he deserves that the community is informed. His apologies should be there too.

The right of speech is for all of us.

Carl

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Canadian Closed - Sponsors, Standards et al

When we do a public event the discussions and the critics are always made public. With not so much chess newspapers and not event a single mention on the FQE website here in Quebec of the tournament itself or the name of the winner, if our HPE editor does'nt talk about it in every aspect then it will be complete silence and this organizer will repeat the same each year.

Hal Bond, the person, insulted our top level players for nine days. I think he deserves that the community is informed. His apologies should be there too.

The right of speech is for all of us.

Carl

Are you blaming Hal Bond for the FQE website not mentioning the event? Does Hal Bond have to do the FQE's work for them?

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Canadian Closed - list of games I have

But monday 1500 chess fans will read in HPE ...

I will translate some of the next week HPE in english for you all and post it here. It will bring it to 3000 chess fans.

There are several possibilities to get more chess fans knowing about the Canadian Closed, and worldwide - TWIC, chessbase, and others.

From TWIC, 17 August:
"28) Canadian Closed and Zonal Championship

The Canadian Closed and Zonal Championship: took place August 7th-16th 2009 in the Guelph University Centre. Time Control: 40/90, G/30 plus 30 second Fischer increment from first move. There was discussion on the forum for http://www.chesstalk.info. Jean Hebert won, Jonathan Tayar made the IM title after beating Louie Jiang for 2nd place. Hopefully a full table and results will turn up. I certainly couldn't find any meaningful coverage on the internet.

The likely official site should have been: http://www.chess.ca but actually this site seems almost abandoned."

Some chances that the today's issue will have more info.

I was expecting to find something at chessbase as well, but nothing (there was nice reports from Open.)

[Kerry Liles]

Re: Canadian Closed - Sponsors, Standards et al

When we do a public event the discussions and the critics are always made public. With not so much chess newspapers and not event a single mention on the FQE website here in Quebec of the tournament itself or the name of the winner, if our HPE editor does'nt talk about it in every aspect then it will be complete silence and this organizer will repeat the same each year.

Hal Bond, the person, insulted our top level players for nine days. I think he deserves that the community is informed. His apologies should be there too.

The right of speech is for all of us.

Carl

Carl, do you not think this is a little exaggerated? I really don't think Hal Bond deliberately intended to impose specific situation on the players in the Closed. I think he stepped forward (at the very last moment!) to hold the tournament when no one else seemed willing or able to do so. I think he genuinely tried to provide the best service possible under the circumstances

Jean has a perfectly legitimate reason to complain - and I believe he should do so (to the CFC). It seems that his complaints were taken by many to be a direct attack on Hal (even though Jean indicated that was not the case).

I think it is quite extreme for you to claim that Hal "insulted our top level players for nine days". In all my dealings with Hal I have always found him to be working in the best interests of chess. There likely were shortcomings about the Closed and the way it was operated, but nothing will be accomplished by the ad hominem attacks (real or perceived).

Jean should express his complaints to the CFC (I suggest the new President may have an open mind) and Jean should encourage other players from the Closed to echo his points (so far, I have not heard anyone else jump up and say "yes, yes!" but perhaps they are shy or they don't bother reading ChessTalk).

I am *not* saying that Jean's complaints are without merit - I just do not like the way that they were, and apparently are still, interpreted as a personal attack on the individuals that did the organizing. Of course, Hal could also forward the complaints to the CFC who should immediately look into putting into place specific requirements for all major Canadian Chess events so this never happens again.

[Carl Bilodeau]

Re: Canadian Closed - Sponsors, Standards et al

Are you blaming Hal Bond for the FQE website not mentioning the event? Does Hal Bond have to do the FQE's work for them?

No. I simply say that Jean Hebert is the source of more thant 50% of info in Quebec for local Chess. If he can't talk and write then we will have a problem here.

[Carl Bilodeau]

Re: Canadian Closed - Sponsors, Standards et al

Carl, do you not think this is a little exaggerated? I really don't think Hal Bond deliberately intended to impose specific situation on the players in the Closed. I think he stepped forward (at the very last moment!) to hold the tournament when no one else seemed willing or able to do so. I think he genuinely tried to provide the best service possible under the circumstances

Jean has a perfectly legitimate reason to complain - and I believe he should do so (to the CFC). It seems that his complaints were taken by many to be a direct attack on Hal (even though Jean indicated that was not the case).

I think it is quite extreme for you to claim that Hal "insulted our top level players for nine days". In all my dealings with Hal I have always found him to be working in the best interests of chess. There likely were shortcomings about the Closed and the way it was operated, but nothing will be accomplished by the ad hominem attacks (real or perceived).

Jean should express his complaints to the CFC (I suggest the new President may have an open mind) and Jean should encourage other players from the Closed to echo his points (so far, I have not heard anyone else jump up and say "yes, yes!" but perhaps they are shy or they don't bother reading ChessTalk).

I am *not* saying that Jean's complaints are without merit - I just do not like the way that they were, and apparently are still, interpreted as a personal attack on the individuals that did the organizing. Of course, Hal could also forward the complaints to the CFC who should immediately look into putting into place specific requirements for all major Canadian Chess events so this never happens again.

Well you are just not used to democracy, journalism, right of speech, etc. Blame yourself for this lack of experience in Canadian way of life. Nothing new here, Jean did not invent those principles.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Canadian Closed - Standards - CFC Responds

Hi Kerry:

Governor John Coleman has contacted the Masters' Rep., Governor Eddie Urquhart, to see what can be done to set up a committee to draft standards for the Canadian Closed for future. This is still in early process, but is an attempt by the CFC to meet Jean Hebert's complaints, and resolve them.

Should such a committee be formed, I would expect one of the first people they would contact would be the new Canadian Champion, Governor Jean Hebert.

Bob

[Kerry Liles]

Re: Canadian Closed - Sponsors, Standards et al

Well you are just not used to democracy, journalism, right of speech, etc. Blame yourself for this lack of experience in Canadian way of life. Nothing new here, Jean did not invent those principles.

I can only attribute your inability to read to the possibility that English may not be your first language. C'est dommage. Au revoir.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Canadian Closed - Standards - CFC Responds

Governor John Coleman has contacted the Masters' Rep., Governor Eddie Urquhart, to see what can be done to set up a committee to draft standards for the Canadian Closed for future. This is still in early process, but is an attempt by the CFC to meet Jean Hebert's complaints, and resolve them.

The point Bob is not to meet my personal "complaints" or anyone player specific complaints. The point is to one day before the next century have a national championship worthy of its name, that serves as a great promotional tool for chess, for the chess players and for the organisations involded, including the CFC.

Personally I am quite happy with the way things turned out. As a player I got everything I could have hoped for from this Canadian Zonal, except maybe a few thousand dollars extra. What really bothers me is that the game of chess did not get much. A few other players got a new tiitle but the rest did not get much. Those strong masters who stayed home because playing would have been too costly did not get much either.

Actually, chess promotion did get something worthwhile: a full page in Montreal's The Gazette that was also reproduced in the Edmonton Journal. And it is possible that some more may be coming. But no thanks to the CFC or to Hal Bond for that. When I got home on Sunday August 16 around midnight, I push the right button for a press release to be sent as soon as possible. This is what led to that page on chess. Isn't that the job of a competent organizer to send press releases when needed ? Would that be a job for chess federations and other organisations, like Chess and Maths ? Of course it is. But why is it that it is almost never done ? Time to wake up maybe ?

[Carl Bilodeau]

Re: Canadian Closed - Sponsors, Standards et al

I can only attribute your inability to read to the possibility that English may not be your first language. C'est dommage. Au revoir.

You say he should forward to the CFC and I say this is not required. Let me explain to you democracy: A group of usualy incompetent people manage a project an incompetent way but in the interest of everybody. It is better thant a dictacture since they work in the interest of everybody. The only way thought to make sure they keep everybody's interest in mind is to have CRITICS, OPPOSITIONS and JOURNALISTS. We acheive that everyday in Canada since we have speach rights and democracy. C'est la vie.

To write some emails to some governors will not work. We have to influence the public and inform them. This is the way it works, it has to start from the bottom.

Jean took 30 years probably to realize he could be GM and the same amount of time to realize that with a weekly electronic letter to the community he could change the world (I mean our world of chess in Quebec). And it works. It starts to move seriously in Quebec.

With his weekly HPE, organizers and chess players are now informed of what to do, what not to do, what people like or not, how others did their tournaments. They know what elite wants or not. He is the critic, the opposition, the mentor, the journalist, etc.

If you want to fix your quality problems, management problems, and governors ridiculous structure, someone here should translate HPE every week so that your organizers in other parts or Canada get some profesionnal critics, advices, etc. HPE has 1500 readers, with an english version he would probably make some bucks in publicity too. Contact him, maybe he will accept it.

Each week someone will launch a thread here in english about the current HPE and the community will discuss a whole week about HPE solutions. Is'nt it what you just did all of you here. LOL

Au revoir.
Carl

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Canadian Closed - Sponsors, Standards et al

I did not have to pay the entry fee. I even thanked Hal for it in a previous post. Apology ? :)

So it is worse than I had thought. With one hand, you take from Hal the free entry, and with the other you wait until his back is turned and then smack him in the head.

Mr. Hebert, here's exactly what you wrote:

>>> Why is it that "no frills" has to mean very poor financial conditions, outrageous entry fees for everybody including titled players, ... <<<

and

>>> You failed on that account also because many non-ontarian players stayed home because of the non-existent financial conditions offered. The "fair fight" was only for those who could afford it. Players outside of Ontarion can hardly speak of "fair fight". Most of them reasonably stayed home. If you had not find a sponsor for my entry fee (thanks Hal!), if the FQE had not agreed to pay generously for an article, and if my partner had not agreed to spend part of his vacation with me in Guelph sharing the costs, then I would have stayed home too. <<<

So I was incorrect in implying you paid an entry fee, but I was spot on in identifying the true nature of your blindside attack against Hal. You didn't want just the free entry fee, you wanted all the costs covered as well. Without that free entry, you would have not attended. Are you that poor? Or is it that you yourself lack the dedication that you criticise others for lacking?

Wake up from your dream world, Jean Hebert. There is little to no money for chess any longer, unless in Quebec the provincial government gets involved and taxes the people there to distribute to freeloaders like you. Do the non-chess-playing people of Quebec want this? Are they attending chess events in Quebec in far greater numbers than anywhere else in North America? If you claim so, I'd have to see the proof of that.

There's a definition of insanity that goes: you keep trying the same thing over and over and expect a different result. Well, there have been chess tournaments going on in North America for many decades open to the non-chess-playing public to attend, and they stay away in droves. If you think they are going to start magically appearing, and sticking around, your events in Quebec, I'd suggest you're insane, unless you have some idea besides just the chess to get them there and keep them there. And if you do have such an idea, why didn't you share it with Hal?

Hal wrote:

>>> I spent a fair amount of time last year trying to find a home for this year's Zonal and we came close to landing in it Alberta and Ottawa. In then end it was Guelph or nothing. <<<

From this it is evident Hal spent a lot of time trying to get this event to happen. Where were you all this time, Jean Hebert? Possibly too busy trying to find the next freeroll event that would lay out the red carpet for you?

Your post-event public criticism of Hal is shameful and unprofessional. And yes, apology to Hal Bond is still warranted, even more so seeing as how he worked to get you to the event. And by accepting the free entry and playing to the end without a word of criticism is even more unprofessional. By the second day, you should have returned your entry and informed Hal that the event was beneath you to attend. But it wasn't, because there was money to be won.

I notice a lot of Quebec people are coming out from the woodwork and joining your bandwagon now that you won. I wonder if you had finished down in the middle of the pack and made these criticisms, would these people be doing this?

Maybe, but that isn't even the main point of my mentioning this. I'm now beginning to see this as an Ontario vs Quebec thing, where Mr. Hebert is now going to take the chess bull by the horns and lead it -- from Quebec -- into a glorious new age. All at the expense of Hal Bond, who is made to look like a fool who was too busy "picking his nose" as Mr. Hebert puts it on another thread.

Perhaps in Quebec, the government will provide all the "frills" that Mr. Hebert was so sorely missing, courtesy of the Quebec taxpayer: the covering of all costs for the elite, the chairs for other chess players to sit in, the signs for other chess players to read, the demo boards for other chess players to look at. Unfortunately for anyone actually investing in this movement and expecting a return, those other chess players are almost unanimously as penny-pinching as Mr. Hebert himself.

Of course, if the investor is the government, no return is necessary. Just keep milking the taxpayers. And if they complain, start pasting Mr. Hebert's picture everywhere alongside the Quebec flag.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Canadian Closed - Sponsors, Standards et al

There is little to no money for chess any longer, unless in Quebec the provincial government gets involved and taxes the people there to distribute to freeloaders like you.

Look at this nice report from a chess club anniversary http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5710
The chess club got almost all living world champions (V.Smyslov is too old to travel,) and managed to handle hefty prices.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Canadian Closed - Sponsors, Standards et al

We all went in Championships and we know how to judge an organizer. This one did a very bad job and the tournament was a shame. This is no defamation this is INFORMATION.

I have been in such a tournament with no signs, no advertissement, no nothing only chess set. 50% of the players did not show up and prefered to play in their club even if it was a Quebec Chess Youth Championship. There was no pictures and no report on the website so nobody in the community was informed. Take 15 kids in a Tim Horton and the Championship would have been more a success. This tournament did not help the next year participation and then the next year... there was no Championship at all for kids in long game in the whole province.

You need to have a long term vision. Jean Hébert is a reference in the Chess Community, a star and a model for my kids at home. I have been to some of his presentation and he is fantastic. He was not there to make friends, he was not there for money, he was there to communicate PASSION and he did to all the participants.

Please cool down, Jean want profesionnalism and quality, not elitism. He wants competition and competitors in front of him, not elitism. He promote every week chess among kids in Quebec and he was upset to see only old timers in the top Quebec Chess Championship in january and since then he motivated the whole community in Quebec to do even more for kids.

This is the Jean Hébert I know and I know him more than this thread. He is no "bastard" but for sure is "a star".

Carl

Carl,

What Jean may have done in the past isn't relevant here. From what you write, he's good with kids and with presentations. That's all admirable.

But I still claim he was wrong to wait until after the Closed, after he'd gotten his prize money and left town, and then criticize Hal Bond on a public forum. That's spineless, to say the least. Even the best of people can make mistakes, and this was a very bad mistake on Jean's part. Even if Hal did deserve criticism, and I'm not saying he did, it should have been done in private and at the time Jean was aware of the problems.

Jean writes that if he'd mentioned this to Hal at the event, it would have created a bad atmosphere for him (Jean) at the event and not remedied the problems. Well, we can't go back in time and remedy the problems for that event now, can we? It is obvious to me and anyone with half a mind that Jean was focused only on minimizing his costs to be there, and on winning money. I can only think he must be struggling financially, but even that doesn't excuse him.

He wants free entries and all costs covered for titled chess players. If chess players could lose their titles and did so with regularity, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But titles remain for life, and with chess being a game of pure skill, the cream remains at the top and the only changes occur very slowly over time. That to me adds up to elitism.

All I can say to all this is, the chess world has some evolving to do and thank goodness there's poker to look upon for common sense, good organization, and most of all, excitement. The top poker players pay their own entries and their own expenses, and none of them even suggest it should be otherwise, at least that I'm aware of. Of if it is paid for them by sponsors, it gets paid back out of their winnings.

It's kind of like socialism versus capitalism, where the top chess players are a union and can look forward to a regular income stream with no incentive or reward for extra work (just agree to a quick draw and take your money), and
the top poker players are the capitalists, always having to work for their money and take risks. But the socialists (elite chess players) get, in return for their easy life, minimal rewards. The capitalists (elite poker players) are a much hardier lot, and the rewards for them can be very rich indeed.