Do we have an elephant in the room?

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Now I feel like a child who cried out:"But he isn't wearing anything at all!"

I still don't get from your expressed opinions what an elephant is in the room in your eyes? Is it players playing in the title tournaments tweaked to obtain titles or tournaments itself? What about this one specifically created for GM and IM norms in Kitchener ( http://www.chessfest.ca/kitmasters.html )? There was a recent one in Montreal ( http://chess-results.com/tnr397491.a...&art=4&flag=30 ) with IM norms too.

[David Ottosen]

Agreed. A Canadian about to get a GM title used to be a big deal. Congrats GM Yang!

Thats the thing. If we have a bevy of 2400ish players (and despite his current jump to 2505, that's what he appears to have established himself as for the last couple of years) are suddenly all becoming GMs off a few odd looking performances, the magic of a Canadian becoming a GM loses it's luster.

[David Ottosen]

AND, since we're Canadians, hopefully we can do those things with a little consideration for other peoples' feelings. Some of us might have to work at that. After all, we wouldn't want to take the easy path!!

Actually, one of the things I like most about chess is there's no requirement to be politically correct in this manner. It's very possible to acknowledge that he fully complied with the rules and has earned a title under those rules without any issues, but at the same time think those rules no longer reflect the spirit in which they were originally created.

[Ian Findlay]

So going back to Rene's original post... if you know of some serious misconduct from specific organizers and players, please report it to our delegates or the larger FIDE body. It would be a service you'd be doing.
... but ...
If this post is meant to belittle one of our players' achievements, shame on you. There are more adequate ways of presenting flawed systems. We have had players succeed and fail at these "norm factory" tournaments. All that data should be collected and analyzed for what it is. Without picking and choosing individuals who happened to have succeeded.


Alex Ferreira

Agreed. A Canadian about to get a GM title used to be a big deal. Congrats GM Yang!

[Erik Malmsten]

I am Kaiqi Yang’s girlfriend, Ruoying Xu, most people call me Amy. I am also a chess player, was one of the top 10 Canadian Women Chess players and was invited to the Canadian Chess Women Championship in Quebec last year.

Kaiqi got his first GM norm back in 2008, got his first international tournament champion back in 2008. . . .

Thanks Amy, we all should be aware of his great Hart House win, but chess news isn't what it used to be when we had a printed CFC magazine and weekly newspaper chess columns. I think it's hard on one's chess to be always teaching. One needs regular contact with stronger players, which is rare to find in Canada.

Kaiqi has defeated Grandmasters in international play. This from 2008:

https://ratings.fide.com/individual_calculations.phtml?idnumber=8604398&rating_period=2008-10-01&t=0

[Peter McKillop]

In Canada where we’re free to think our own thoughts, speak our minds, listen to views of others and express our opinions.

AND, since we're Canadians, hopefully we can do those things with a little consideration for other peoples' feelings. Some of us might have to work at that. After all, we wouldn't want to take the easy path!!

[Rene Preotu]

I have no idea where we find such creatures.

In Canada where we’re free to think our own thoughts, speak our minds, listen to views of others and express our opinions.

[Peter McKillop]

Congratulations on your title GM Kaiqi Yang.

The naked display of malice and envy toward you by Rene Preotu in this thread utterly disgraceful. I have no idea where we find such creatures.

Bravo, Halldor!

[Peter McKillop]

Now I feel like a child who cried out:"But he isn't wearing anything at all!"

Unrepentant until the bitter end, eh Rene?

[Halldor P. Palsson]

Congratulations on your title GM Kaiqi Yang.

The naked display of malice and envy toward you by Rene Preotu in this thread utterly disgraceful. I have no idea where we find such creatures.

[Kaiqi Yang]

Thanks for all the people who supports me. I am proud of what I achieved. About Mr. Rene Preotu, I am speechless, I wish you all the best in the future. Period.

[Rene Preotu]

Now I feel like a child who cried out:"But he isn't wearing anything at all!"

[Amy Xu]

I am Kaiqi Yang’s girlfriend, Ruoying Xu, most people call me Amy. I am also a chess player, was one of the top 10 Canadian Women Chess players and was invited to the Canadian Chess Women Championship in Quebec last year.

Kaiqi got his first GM norm back in 2008, got his first international tournament champion back in 2008. Over the past 10 years, he had impressive performance and big wins in a list of large international tournaments and beat many strong GMs. He went through ups and down in his chess career, just like most chess players. IT IS UNFAIR to Kaiqi if you only judge his GM title based on the underperformance in some local tournaments. Not to mention he is such a successful and respectable chess coach over the past years, it is not easy to spend so much time on coaching his students while still maintain the same competitive level himself in the meanwhile.

Kaiqi and I met at the Chinese National Youth team in 2004, have been together for over 14 years. As his closest person, I couldn’t count how much time and efforts he has been spent on chess for so many years. He is the most hard-working person I know, always so passionate, obsessed, and 100% devoted to chess. That is why I have to fight back here. Kaiqi is just one of many chess players who have ups and downs in their career, they have uncountable pressure, pains and tears. They suffer from stupid blunders and loses. I can totally feel for them. He did nothing wrong. He is more than eligible for this GM title. He deserves respect.

Dear Mr.Preotu, GM is just a title, it is not exclusive. it is not like that your son’s title is superior to someone else’s. You said that you are only presenting facts, apparently and unfortunately, you are not. Your weird title and suspicious interpretation, your horrible statistics, all make us feel offended and wondering, what is your intention? Kaiqi doesn’t deserve to be tagged by someone like you in a public place like here, being finger pointed by someone like you. Believe me, if someone did something to your son as you did, you can feel what I felt.

A few LINKS:

2017 HART HOUSE OPEN 1^ST PLACE

https://ratings.fide.com/individual_calculations.phtml?idnumber=8604398&rating_period=2017-03-01&t=0

2015 US Millionaire Chess Open U2400 Champion, prize USD 38,000.00

https://ratings.fide.com/individual_calculations.phtml?idnumber=8604398&rating_period=2015-11-01&t=0

2016 US 46^th National Chess Congress, first place, led ahead GMs like Gata Kamsky
https://ratings.fide.com/individual_...2016-01-01&t=0

2016 US 44^th World Open, drew 7 GMs without defeat.

https://ratings.fide.com/individual_calculations.phtml?idnumber=8604398&rating_period=2016-08-01&t=0

[Peter McKillop]

...

So going back to Rene's original post... if you know of some serious misconduct from specific organizers and players, please report it to our delegates or the larger FIDE body. It would be a service you'd be doing.
... but ...
If this post is meant to belittle one of our players' achievements, shame on you. There are more adequate ways of presenting flawed systems. We have had players succeed and fail at these "norm factory" tournaments. All that data should be collected and analyzed for what it is. Without picking and choosing individuals who happened to have succeeded.

Alex Ferreira

Thank you, Alex.

[Alex Ferreira]

But also kudos to Rene for pointing this out. If there is enough public outcry, I am sure FIDE will try to close this loophole also.

Hi,


Nothing wrong with pointing out flaws in systems.
My first thought when reading the post with the list of links was...
Is it being pointed out that an easy path was chosen, which makes achieving the title less sensational? Or was there more serious misconduct?

As for plugging this loophole, considering there was no serious misconduct. Good luck! The past bribes and norm-fixing-pairings and such as things of the past, as they should be. Pairings can be independently verified now by anyone on whether they are legitimate or not anyway. Bribes / dives / agreements should be completely banned, but it's somewhat comparable to two people pre-arranging a draw in any normal circumstance. Good luck proving it.
The present "this tournament, this region, these pools of players with X Y Z characteristics, may make it an easier path to norm" situation will never disappear.
Unless FIDE starts implementing some sort of age restriction or activity restriction on players to count for norms. For example... opponents can only be counted for norm purposes if they're under the age of 50 and have played at least 5 tournaments in the past year. I don't think this will ever happen. Someone asked me yesterday if a self-respecting GM should still be playing in these tournaments if he's playing at a 2300 level, or why are there 2300 rated GMs? Let us assume that all GMs were 2500 and all IMs were 2400 at some point. Now they are older, or have kids, or chess went from profession to hobby, or all of the above. Why should a once-professional player stop playing altogether? What defines professional? How much activity and against whom is it required?
It certainly saddens me to some degree to see players as decades pass, drop 200-300-400 or more points. But with very few exceptions, that will always be the trend. I am now around ~2000 rated, and even though it may hurt my ego to go to 1700, if I am playing chess at age 70 and can still enjoy the game at a 1600-1700 level, great! I have a certain level of admiration for those who keep up, even if they can no longer play at the same level they once did. Why should it be different for GMs? Not everyone is Fischer or Kasparov. If they still enjoy playing, let them play!
So again... I don't think we should be looking at eradicating certain conditions, or banning certain players for being eligible to be in norm tournaments, etc... it will be absolutely catastrophic.
Round Robins can be "conditioned" for good or bad. Meaning... we can observe specific activity or age requirements in a small even playing field... the same would be impossible in a 9 Round Swiss. I'd hate to have a norm taken away from me because I was unfortunate enough to be paired against a 2500 retired GM.

In the same vein of "easy path" titles, we Canada Zone were the biggest benefactors for a long time. IM and FM titles were often awarded for a good result at a Canadian Zonal, without actually meeting the normal requirements to attain this title. The population at large often is heard saying "yah but he's a local IM / FM" -- in other words... "a weak or not a real IM / FM". Yet we defended our zonal privilege to inject titled players into our country, for as long as we could until FIDE shut off the tap. The population can also be quite fair in recognizing that the recipients of these titles, sometimes end up proving they are worth the title anyway. But many also do not. People who want to know and care about this nonsense... do know. Enough people know who are the "strong" IMs and the "zonal" IMs.

So going back to Rene's original post... if you know of some serious misconduct from specific organizers and players, please report it to our delegates or the larger FIDE body. It would be a service you'd be doing.
... but ...
If this post is meant to belittle one of our players' achievements, shame on you. There are more adequate ways of presenting flawed systems. We have had players succeed and fail at these "norm factory" tournaments. All that data should be collected and analyzed for what it is. Without picking and choosing individuals who happened to have succeeded.


Alex Ferreira