Hebert vs. Bond

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Hebert vs. Bond

    I wouldnt be too hard on Mr Hebert, Paul. The way I read it he's an older player lost in the glory years of the Fischer era when everyone could ride the coattails of Fisher's media attention, public adoration and prestige.

    He seems to think all you have to do is send out a press release and chess and himself as Canadian champion will be media stars. That's probably why Canada's team at the chess olympiad gets little or no coverage in the mainstream media, the CFC doesn't send out press releases?

    He also seems to think that all it would take to get sponsorship in the middle of a recession is to send out a few letters to likely sponsors and the prize money will come roling in and he'd be quite a bit enriched now. Unfortunately a small closed tournament with a few players is not attractive to sponsors - there is no audience, no television coverage, no exposure for the sponsor. Unless you find a private company whose owner is sympathetic to chess (sympathy money) or a business that caters to chess players - unfortunately chess players do not use Chalk Off pool table cleaner and those that sell to chess players such as the CFC either do not have funds or like Chess and Math don't need to sponsor to get exposure. I figure to run the kind of event he wants would take $100,000 at a minimum to pay for all the player expenses and substantial prize money. For that kind of money if I was the sponsor I would either want an open tournament with significant number of players such as the Toronto Open or I would put my money elsewhere such as a nice charity golf tournament or a summer festival that thousands would attend, where I would get alot more exposure such as Hamilton's old Aquafest.

    Companies that do have those kinds of funds are planning their budgets now for the next 2 years, better ask them now whoever is planning to run the closed next time, actually it should be the CFC approaching them now, unfortunately though they don't know where it will be even or if it will be given their bidding process.

    I'm just as sorry that chess is not a money sport as Mr Hebert is. One does have to speculate if it was a prestige event if he would have still emerged the winner out of a 12 or 16 player round robin of the very highest rated Canadian players, not just those rated over 2200. Even though I would say its a kick in the pants that winning a Canadian championship does not make you a media star or substantially wealthy such as it would if it were tennis or golf or poker. Unfortunately Mr Hebert doesn't seem to be a champion at any of those money sports, but I guess that's besides the point.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Hebert vs. Bond

      Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
      I wouldnt be too hard on Mr Hebert, Paul. The way I read it he's an older player lost in the glory years of the Fischer era when everyone could ride the coattails of Fisher's media attention, public adoration and prestige.
      That's absolutely ridiculous and untrue. Jean was one of the best in this country in those days. He's still winning championships and I'll remind you he tied for 1st place in the Canadian championship two years ago as well.
      Gary Ruben
      CC - IA and SIM

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Bond

        Hi,

        On occasion I play OTB chess. Played in a few tournaments organized by Hal Bond (including one Canadian Open, but not a Closed), and always had a good time. I am always on the look-out for the next tournament and am disappointed when I cannot attend. Thanks Hal & team of organizers,

        Alex Ferreira

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Hebert vs. Bond

          Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
          That's absolutely ridiculous and untrue. Jean was one of the best in this country in those days. He's still winning championships and I'll remind you he tied for 1st place in the Canadian championship two years ago as well.
          Do the math Gary, he came up in chess during the Fischer era when chess clubs were much bigger, chess was in the media and chess was at the height of its prestige. We had an American chess champ on the cover of sports illustrated, being interviewed on late night talk shows. When did Mr Hebert first win the Canadian closed Gary? I mean you haven't played OTB since when?

          Now it is none of those things. Clubs that used to have a hundred or more players in a night and large club tournaments are often just a dozen or so. Nothing is likely to bring those days back. I was just a kid in that era but I remember it fondly as well. Apparently though for Mr Hebert this decline is the fault of the organizers.
          Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Friday, 28th August, 2009, 08:13 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Hebert vs. Bond

            As I understood J.H. wanted something this, what is at the lower corner, and dreamed to have what in the center :)

            The image from the small tournament, which had all games after every round posted online + the first board live.
            http://www.bsk.puslapiai.lt/lenteles...#37;202009.htm
            Last edited by Egidijus Zeromskis; Friday, 28th August, 2009, 08:08 AM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Drafting National Standards for the Closed - By Whom ?

              Today I posted on the Governors' Discussion Board:

              Drafting National Standards for the Closed - By Whom?

              Hi John [ Coleman ]:

              Any response yet from Governor Eddie Urquhart, Masters' Rep., as to how to draft up some National Standards for the Canadian Closed, which would then become a condition of acceptance of future Closed bids?

              Obviously, from Jean's discussion of what he expects for a Canadian National Championship, and what happened this year, something does need to be done.

              Bob

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Hebert vs. Bond

                Bob,

                Excellent idea.

                If someone would be able to keep me in the loop of the results of these discussions, I would greatly appreciate it. I am in the early stages of a bid for the 2011 Closed.

                Thanks!! Jordan

                jsberson (at) yahoo (dot) com
                No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Drafting National Standards for the Closed - By Whom ?

                  Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
                  Today I posted on the Governors' Discussion Board:

                  Drafting National Standards for the Closed - By Whom?

                  Hi John [ Coleman ]:

                  Any response yet from Governor Eddie Urquhart, Masters' Rep., as to how to draft up some National Standards for the Canadian Closed, which would then become a condition of acceptance of future Closed bids?

                  Obviously, from Jean's discussion of what he expects for a Canadian National Championship, and what happened this year, something does need to be done.

                  Bob
                  No reply yet. I keep telling myself "maybe he is on vacation".

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Bond

                    Originally posted by Alex Ferreira View Post
                    Hi,

                    On occasion I play OTB chess. Played in a few tournaments organized by Hal Bond (including one Canadian Open, but not a Closed), and always had a good time. I am always on the look-out for the next tournament and am disappointed when I cannot attend. Thanks Hal & team of organizers,

                    Alex Ferreira
                    Thanks Alex, your post seems to have returned some civility to the discussion. Hal & Patrick have been running excellent tournaments for many years in Kitchener/Guelph area. Thanks guys.

                    The CFC struggles every year to find organizers to host major events. Money, organizers, sponsors, volunteers, are all scarce resources. There is nothing wrong with pointing out the flaws, and asking for better. But let's keep it constructive on both sides.

                    We won't solve the problem by constantly beating each other up.:):):)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Hebert vs. Bond

                      Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
                      Do the math Gary, he came up in chess during the Fischer era when chess clubs were much bigger, chess was in the media and chess was at the height of its prestige. We had an American chess champ on the cover of sports illustrated, being interviewed on late night talk shows. When did Mr Hebert first win the Canadian closed Gary? I mean you haven't played OTB since when?
                      I remember Jean from the 1970's. He wasn't hanging onto anyones coat tails.

                      As for myself, between organizing the Canadian correspondence club and raising my kids there wasn't muich time remaining for OTB. You might have been in diapers back then. I'm still playing high level correspondence chess and might still be doing so when you are back in diapers. I still get invitations for high level correspondence events.
                      Gary Ruben
                      CC - IA and SIM

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Hebert vs. Bond

                        Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                        I remember Jean from the 1970's. He wasn't hanging onto anyones coat tails.

                        As for myself, between organizing the Canadian correspondence club and raising my kids there wasn't muich time remaining for OTB. You might have been in diapers back then. I'm still playing high level correspondence chess and might still be doing so when you are back in diapers. I still get invitations for high level correspondence events.
                        Homer Simpson:

                        "Ooooooh. Correspondence chess. That's where you get to think for a very long time so you won't blunder. Hey, I know! Maybe I could be a correspondence nuclear power plant operator!"
                        Only the rushing is heard...
                        Onward flies the bird.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Drafting National Standards for the Closed - By Whom ?

                          Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
                          Today I posted on the Governors' Discussion Board:

                          Drafting National Standards for the Closed - By Whom?

                          Hi John [ Coleman ]:

                          Any response yet from Governor Eddie Urquhart, Masters' Rep., as to how to draft up some National Standards for the Canadian Closed, which would then become a condition of acceptance of future Closed bids?

                          Obviously, from Jean's discussion of what he expects for a Canadian National Championship, and what happened this year, something does need to be done.

                          Bob
                          Bob, just a quick question. Assume you draft these standards, and some organizer comes along and seems to meet the standards and so you accept his or her bid.

                          Then the event begins and let's say for some unexpected reason, such as volunteers quitting at the last moment, some of the standards look like they aren't going to be met after all. What will the standards spell out as to how to ensure the standards are actually met even under unexpected circumstances such as this? Will the standards spell out that players should take the place of volunteers or workers if no one else is available? Even when it comes to demo boards, if there's no one else to do it, will the players, at least when they aren't in a time scramble, be asked after making their move to make the move on the demo board? I think I actually saw this happening several years ago, at a Canadian Closed held at the University of Toronto.

                          Somehow I think the players need to become part of the solution, in situations such as I mention. They shouldn't be so prima donna that they can just idly watch the standards go to hell and not lift a finger to help.

                          Maybe it could be spelled out that, under such circumstances, instead of playing all boards at the same time, play them in two shifts, so that half the players aren't playing on a given shift and are available to do tasks that there are no volunteers / workers to do.
                          Only the rushing is heard...
                          Onward flies the bird.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Hebert vs. Bond

                            Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
                            Homer Simpson:

                            "Ooooooh. Correspondence chess. That's where you get to think for a very long time so you won't blunder. Hey, I know! Maybe I could be a correspondence nuclear power plant operator!"
                            I'm getting tired of telling a fool like you about sex and travel.

                            If you don't like the types of chess which make up the worldwide chess scene, find yourself a poker game somewhere. The nations which are strong at OTB chess are also strong at correspondence chess.

                            I notice you loved correspondence chess when you wanted me to introduce the international correspondence players to your style of play. Are you sure this isn't about what's good for you and not your altrusitic claim of your love for the Canadian game?
                            Gary Ruben
                            CC - IA and SIM

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Drafting National Standards for the Closed - By Whom ?

                              Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
                              Will the standards spell out that players should take the place of volunteers or workers if no one else is available? Even when it comes to demo boards, if there's no one else to do it, will the players, at least when they aren't in a time scramble, be asked after making their move to make the move on the demo board? I think I actually saw this happening several years ago, at a Canadian Closed held at the University of Toronto.

                              Somehow I think the players need to become part of the solution, in situations such as I mention. They shouldn't be so prima donna that they can just idly watch the standards go to hell and not lift a finger to help.
                              All the talk has centered around a specific event; the Canadian Closed & Zonal. I find it impossible to believe that anyone would seriously suggest that players, especially at this level, be expected to do anything other than play. The idea that they would be obliged to carry out other duties is risible and would make Canada a laughingstock.

                              Can you imagine a national track and field championship where entrants paint lane lines. ring the last lap bell or place the finishing tape? How about a Memorial Cup where one of the benchwarmers gets picked to drive the Zamboni? Is that the answer? What is the "prima donna" aspect of a player who simply plays?

                              In another post, you used a business analogy. You said that players should help out because that's what workers are expected to do if someone is missing. The problem is, they aren't workers! If you want to compare it to a business model, think of them as customers; especially when they pay a high entry fee to take part in the tournament.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Are the Fees that High?

                                Neil,

                                With all due respect, I think a more appropriate example of high entry fees would be the World Series of Poker :

                                http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/registration/

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X