The Candidates 2020

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  • #76
    Dazzling holds by Grischuk and MVL for draws. The knights got good workouts this round.


    • #77
      Nepo is now +3 and has at least a one point lead over MVL and at least 1.5 over the rest of the field.


      • #78
        Giri wins the N +3 pawns vs N+ 2 pawns (all on the kingside) endgame in under 100 moves. It was not easy. Its his first win of the candidates, well deserved, and brings him to an equal score of 3/6


        • #79
          Tomorrow (Tuesday) is a rest day.


          • #80
            The Candidates 2020

            March 23, 2020

            Round Six

            Nihal Sarin and Nils Grandelius are guests today, with Greg Shahade coming in later.

            Nepo during the post-game interview was coughing and sniffing and said he was looking for a quick draw today but beat Ding Liren. Nepo was talking a mile a minute, barely letting the interviewer speak. Lawrence comes on after to say that the players are tested every day, so this is probably a cold which Nepo might be able to shake off.

            Everything about seems aggressive – fast play, fast analysis and with his man bun/top knot he resembles your unfriendly neighbourhood sumo wrestler.

            Round 6, Mar. 23
            Nepomniachtchi, Ian – Ding, Liren
            C84 Ruy Lopez, Closed

            1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.d3 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.a3 O-O 9.Nc3 Na5 10.Ba2 Be6 11.b4 Bxa2 12.Rxa2 Nc6 13.Bg5 Qd7 14.Bxf6 Bxf6 15.Nd5 a5 16.Rb2 axb4 17.axb4 Bd8 18.c4 Nd4 19.Nxd4 exd4 20.Qc2 Re8 21.g3 bxc4 22.Qxc4 c6 23.Nf4 Bg5 24.Ne2 d5 25.exd5 cxd5 26.Qb3 h5 27.b5 h4 28.b6 h3 29.Kh1 Reb8 30.Rfb1 Bd8 31.Qb5 Qg4 32.Qxd5 Ra5 33.Qc6 Rc5 34.Qe8+ Kh7 35.Ng1 Rxb6 36.Qxd8 Rxb2 37.Rxb2 Rc1 38.Qh4+ Qxh4 39.gxh4 Rd1 40.f3 1-0

            Position after White’s 33.Qc6


            Chess24: Will Ding Liren find the stunning game-saving 33...Rxb6!! 34.Rxb6 Qxe2! 35.Rb8 Re5!!

            Greg said that when he met Jan at a Manhattan tournament, Jan complained afterward that he couldn’t understand why he couldn’t beat an unknown player. I tried to find the game in chessgames but could only come up with this interesting tidbit about Jan:

            wordfunph: "German Olympian Jan Gustafsson was motivated to learn poker when he went to New York City to visit his friend Yakov Hirsch, who was once a chess coach struggling to pay the rent. Yakov had just become a poker pro, had already bought a fancy car and designer clothes, and was dining regularly in restaurants like Nobu and Peter Lugar's, among the most expensive in New York City. Impressed by his friend's newfound luxury, Jan convinced Yakov to teach him. Only a year and a half later, Jan is making three times as much money in poker than he earns in chess. Still, he divides his time equally between the two games."

            Jan explained that his hand injury was received protecting a squirrel from a wolf. Comment on Chat:

            - A German who can pronounce squirrel!!!

            Round 6, Mar. 23
            Wang, Hao – MVL
            D87 Grunfeld, Exchange, Spassky variation

            1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 c5 8.Ne2 O-O 9.O-O Nc6 10.Be3 b6 11.h4 e6 12.h5 Qh4 13.hxg6 hxg6 14.f3 Bb7 15.Qd2 cxd4 16.cxd4 Rfd8 17.Rac1 Qe7 18.Rfd1 Rac8 19.Bg5 Bf6 20.Bxf6 Qxf6 21.Qe3 Kg7 22.Kf2 Rh8 23.Rh1 Rxh1 24.Rxh1 Rh8 25.Rxh8 Kxh8 26.Qc3 Kg8 27.d5 Qxc3 28.Nxc3 Na5 29.Bd3 exd5 30.exd5 Kf8 31.Ke3 Ke7 32.Kd4 Bc8 33.Nb5 a6 34.Nc7 Kd6 35.Nxa6 Nb7 36.g4 g5 37.Nb4 Bd7 38.Nc2 Ke7 39.Ne3 Nd6 40.Nd1 Ba4 41.Nf2 f6 42.Be2 Be8 43.Nd1 Ba4 44.Nb2 Be8 45.Bd1 Nb5+ 46.Kc4 Nc7 47.Bb3 Kd6 48.Kd4 Nb5+ 49.Kd3 Nc7 50.Nc4+ Kc5 51.Nd2 Bb5+ 52.Ke4 Bd7 53.Nf1 Nb5 54.Ng3 Nd6+ 55.Ke3 f5 56.gxf5 Bxf5 57.Nxf5 Nxf5+ 58.Ke4 Nh4 59.Ba4 Kd6 60.Be8 Ng2 61.Bf7 Ne1 62.a4 Nc2 63.Be8 Ne1 64.Bb5 Ng2 65.Bc4 Nh4 66.Bf1 Kc5 67.Bh3 Kd6 68.Be6 Ng6 69.Bf7 Nh4 70.Be8 Ng2 71.Bb5 Nh4 72.Bd3 Kc5 73.Bf1 Kd6 74.Bh3 Ng6 75.Be6 Nh4 76.Bf7 Ke7 77.Bh5 Kd6 78.Bg4 Ng2 79.Kf5 Kxd5 80.Kxg5 Ke5 81.Kg6 Nf4+ 82.Kf7 Nd3 83.Ke7 1/2-1/2

            Round 6, Mar. 23
            Grischuk, Alexander – Caruana, Fabiano
            C78 Ruy Lopez, Archangel variation

            1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O b5 6.Bb3 Bc5 7.a4 Rb8 8.c3 d6 9.d4 Bb6 10.a5 Ba7 11.h3 O-O 12.Be3 Re8 13.Ng5 Rf8 14.Nf3 Re8 15.Re1 exd4 16.cxd4 Nxe4 17.d5 Bxe3 18.Rxe3 Na7 19.Qd4 Bf5 20.Nbd2 Nc5 21.Rxe8+ Qxe8 22.Re1 Qf8 23.Bd1 b4 24.Be2 Qd8 25.Bf1 h6 26.Re3 b3 27.Qf4 Bd7 28.Nd4 Rb4 29.Rg3 Qe7 30.Bc4 Nb5 31.N4xb3 Nxb3 32.Rxb3 Qe1+ 33.Kh2 Rxb3 34.Nxb3 Qb4 35.Qe4 c5 36.Qd3 g6 37.g4 Kg7 38.Kg2 Nc7 39.Qc3+ Qxc3 40.bxc3 f5 41.Nd2 Kf6 42.Kg3 Bb5 43.Bb3 Be2 44.gxf5 gxf5 45.f4 Nb5 46.c4 Nc3 47.Bc2 Bd1 48.Bd3 Na2 49.Kf2 Nb4 50.Ke3 Bc2 51.Be2 Na2 52.Nf1 Nc1 53.Kd2 Nxe2 54.Kxe2 Ba4 1/2-1/2

            Anish had the longest game again – over seven hours. It looked like Kirill was going to draw and then he blundered and Anish picked up the point.

            Round 6, Mar. 23
            Alekseenko, Kirill – Giri, Anish
            C50 Giuoco Piano

            1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.O-O Nf6 5.d3 d6 6.c3 O-O 7.Re1 a5 8.Nbd2 Be6 9.Bb5 Ba7 10.Nf1 Ne7 11.Ng3 c6 12.Ba4 Ng6 13.h3 d5 14.exd5 Nxd5 15.Bc2 Qc7 16.d4 exd4 17.Nxd4 Rae8 18.Bg5 Ndf4 19.Qd2 Bd5 20.Rxe8 Rxe8 21.Re1 Re5 22.Bxf4 Rxe1+ 23.Qxe1 Qxf4 24.Qe8+ Nf8 25.Bb3 Bxd4 26.cxd4 Bxb3 27.axb3 Qf6 28.Qe4 g6 29.Ne2 Ne6 30.h4 h5 31.g3 Qd8 32.Qe5 Qb6 33.d5 cxd5 34.Qxd5 Kf8 35.Nc3 Qc7 36.Ne4 Qc1+ 37.Kg2 Qxb2 38.Qd7 b6 39.Nd6 Qf6 40.Qe8+ Kg7 41.Qd7 Kg8 42.Qe8+ Nf8 43.Qc6 Qd8 44.Nc4 Ne6 45.Nxb6 Nd4 46.Qc5 Nxb3 47.Qb5 Nd2 48.Qxa5 Qd3 49.Qa1 Qe4+ 50.Kg1 Nf3+ 51.Kf1 Nxh4 52.Qa8+ Qxa8 53.Nxa8 Nf3 54.Kg2 Ne5 55.f4 Ng4 56.Nb6 Kf8 57.Nd5 Ke8 58.Nc3 Ke7 59.Ne4 Ne3+ 60.Kf3 Nc4 61.Ng5 Kf6 62.Ne4+ Kf5 63.Nf2 Nd2+ 64.Ke3 Nf1+ 65.Kf3 Nh2+ 66.Kg2 Ng4 67.Nh3 f6 68.Kf3 Ke6 69.Ke4 Kd6 70.Ng1 Kc5 71.Kd3 Nh6 72.Ke3 Nf5+ 73.Kf3 Kc4 74.Nh3 Nd4+ 75.Ke3 Nf5+ 76.Kf3 Kd4 77.Nf2 Nd6 78.Nh3 Ne4 79.Ng1 Kd3 80.Kg2 Nd2 81.Kf2 Ke4 82.Ne2 Nb1 83.Ng1 h4 84.Nh3 Kf5 85.gxh4 Kg4 86.f5 gxf5 87.Ke3 Nc3 88.Nf2+ Kg3 89.Nd3 Nd5+ 90.Kd4 Nf4 91.Nc5 Kxh4 92.Ke3 Kg3 93.Nb3 Ne6 94.Nd2 f4+ 95.Ke2 Ng5 96.Kf1 f3 97.Kg1 f2+ 98.Kf1 f5 0-1

            Position after Black’s 88….Kg3. White played 89.Nd3? instead of Nh1+ and loses the game


            Chat Room Comments

            - One bad move ruined 88 good moves for Alekseenko
            - 7 hours fighting ! Giri deserved the win!
            - Alekseenko played just as long, ergo he deserved a draw by the same reasoning.
            - Anish Giri: "At the end I nearly had a heart attack because I realised it's going to be my first ever win at the Candidates!"
            Nigel Short - 7 times US Women's Champion, Irina Krush, has been rather poorly with Covid-19, but is now thankfully recovering at home.

            Standings after Round Six

            1 Nepomniachtchi 4.5
            2 MVL 3.5
            3-6 Caruana, Giri, Wang Hao, Grischuk 3
            7-8 Ding Liren, Alekseenko 2

            Tomorrow is a rest day with play resuming on Wednesday, Mar. 25 with these pairings:

            Caruana-Wang Hao
            Ding Liren-Alekseenko


            • #81
              Hans, what would you think of combining your insights into a big post per round, like Wayne does? I'm suggesting it because I think it would be easier to read, absorb, compare to other sites, etc.

              Just my 2c worth.


              • #82
                The Candidates 2020

                March 23, 2020

                Emil Sutovsky on the continuation of the tournament

                People keep asking about Candidates - wondering whether FIDE had carefully reviewed the situation.

                I think the things should not be taken out of proportions. Obviously it is difficult for players - as the pressure is already high and issues add up. It is also difficult for FIDE - and actually cancelling it all would be the simplest thing to do from the beginning. It would have been considered a "responsible step".

                But it is very easy to ruin the cycle, in fact cancelling the chess life altogether. I would say that stopping the event would be a huge blow for chess. Not for FIDE. For entire chess world. Would we prefer to stage it in a regular atmosphere, without all the problems and hype? You bet. But we were not in a position to choose - and most players understand it, even if they are not exactly happy with the situation.

                But what was the alternative? How high is the risk? Of course we asked ourselves and reviewed it all more than once. Now, it is very important to understand the details. There is an actual problem in the World - when the situations that only look similar are tackled in the similar way. Here we talk about the event with only eight players. And actually there is a whole string of measures taken to minimize the risk. So we can't really compare it to other sports. And when it was about larger events - we did postpone them. Once again, we understand how difficult it is for players, and being myself a top-20 player in recent past, I understand them fully. FIDE does its utmost both to minimize the risk and not to overwhelm Grandmasters who are already under the pressure with all sorts of check-ups.

                We often talk about one's responsibility - here we see our responsibility in finding the balance allowing players to compete, at the same time protecting their health. And of course tackling all the issues to make sure everybody gets home safely after the event.


                Some comments on the above:

                Young-Kyu Yoo - FIDE is definitely not the only organization that has been a step behind the virus. Many governments have been a step or two or more behind, and the Olympics is lagging the entire world as they still haven't officially pulled the trigger. But I think FIDE (and the USCF) needs to come to grips with the stealthy nature of this thing. What you see happening now is the result of infections that happened 2 to 4 weeks ago. Expect it to get much worse and at an increasingly faster (even exponential) rate over the next few weeks...months...maybe longer? Please plan for the disaster this could be and not what you see now...which is plenty bad.

                Finnbj°rn Vang - Can you explain how chess should be worse after cancellation of events just like any other sports. I dont see any argument for this, other than you mentioning it. If FIDE had cancelled you would have had the chance to go all-in on online chess for example - if you wanted. That's a huge benefit chess has over others sports.
                And I don't think you can use the players as an argument for holding the Candidates. You have no idea if they were safer or endangered anywhere else.

                I suppose they have contracts to fulfill (so does FIDE) but seeing great numbers following the match and using that as pro-Candidates is tragicomic - any major event these days would do that.

                Daniel Sosunov - It's not only about personal risks in Yekaterinburg, but also psychological condition of the players, who left families and friends behind and can't really concentrate on chess.

                For example, I don't remember Ding and Caruana playing so inconvincingly in past years. Surely it's not a coincidence. In current conditions, I am not sure that a best one will win it and even Grischuk quoted Botvinnik in that matter yesterday.

                Dan Avery - I can understand going ahead with the main event, but that doesn't explain the opening ceremony, with people crammed into the auditorium.

                Shouldn't that at least have been cancelled, and shouldn't the closing ceremonies also be cancelled?


                Emil Sutovsky is an Israeli chess player. He was awarded the title Grandmaster by FIDE in 1996. Sutovsky is the FIDE Director General since 2018.


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Aris Marghetis View Post
                  Hans, what would you think of combining your insights into a big post per round, like Wayne does? I'm suggesting it because I think it would be easier to read, absorb, compare to other sites, etc.

                  Just my 2c worth.
                  Sure, will try.


                  • #84
                    Rd 7 Nepo plays the French against the French! Key game. Will the French hold!?
                    Giri - Grischuk - a fascinating English which turns into an isolated pawn position - should be a good positional struggle.
                    Ding - Alekseenko A Catalan where Black counters with c6 and f6. White finds an interesting way to break the center and the queenside. Is it enough?
                    Fab Fabi - Wang Hao A Petroff where Black leads on the queenside with c5(after opposite side castling) and White exchanges queens. Sharp play in the center with the minor pieces results and then interesting pawn play on the queenside.


                    • #85
                      Ding - Alekseenko - was it enough? No. After resulting exchanges and tactical skirmishes White had to defend against a passed C pawn to hold the draw.

                      Giri - Grischuk reached a position after 28...Bf6 which shows the outside passed pawns vs the passed D pawn. In this position the passed D pawn is too fast and White played 29.Ra4 and soon draw.
                      MVL played the classic pawn break 29.g4! and Nepo's kingside position started to collapse. MVL wrapped it up nicely 1 - 0

                      Fab Fabi - Wang Hao After a lot of piece exchanges and the beginning of an interesting endgame Wang Hao found 31...c3 and followed with the surprising but nice tactic Rxc2+ leading to a pawn up endgame. That endgame was not enough to win so draw.
                      Last edited by Hans Jung; Wednesday, 25th March, 2020, 11:16 AM.


                      • #86
                        MVL had a must win against Nepo and catches up with Nepo's now +2 at the half way point of the tournament. They lead the rest of the field by at least a point.
                        Last edited by Hans Jung; Wednesday, 25th March, 2020, 01:41 PM.


                        • #87
                          The Candidates 2020

                          March 25, 2020

                          Round Seven

                          The guests today are Magnus Carlsen and David Howell.

                          Lawrence Trent is asked about Fabi and he says that he has seen his prep, glanced at this files and seen his supercomputer. Jan asks what a supercomputer looks like.

                          Lawrence: It looks like a normal computer but when you start it up it sounds like a small airplane or helicopter starting up. It is an incredibly loud noise. All the cylinders are firing up to get it all the power and energy it needs. It’s a monster and it requires the energy of a small village to power it up with all the cores and everything else.

                          Jan: That’s why they have all these power shortages in St. Louis.

                          Lawrence: Yes, he just switched on Leela.

                          Jan: A question from the Chat. “Magnus, will you grow a man-bun if you meet Nepomniachtchi for the title?”

                          Magnus: Naw, I’m not going to co-opt someone’s style.”

                          Lawrence: What about a mullet?

                          Magnus doesn’t know what a mullet hair style is and Lawrence tries to explain by using google to translate the term into Norwegian.

                          Round 7, Mar. 25
                          Caruana, Fabiano – Wang, Hao
                          C42 Petrov, Nimzowitsch Attack

                          1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7.Be3 O-O 8.Qd2 Nd7 9.O-O-O Nf6 10.Bd3 c5 11.Rhe1 Be6 12.Kb1 Qa5 13.c4 Qxd2 14.Nxd2 Rad8 15.f3 b6 16.g4 d5 17.g5 Nh5 18.cxd5 Bxd5 19.Ne4 f5 20.gxf6 Nxf6 21.Bg5 Kf7 22.Ng3 c4 23.Bf1 b5 24.a4 a6 25.axb5 axb5 26.Nf5 Bc5 27.Re5 Bxf3 28.Rxd8 Rxd8 29.Rxc5 Rd1+ 30.Ka2 Rxf1 31.Rxb5 c3 32.Bxf6 Kxf6 33.Ne3 Rf2 34.Rf5+ Ke6 35.Ka3 cxb2 36.Kxb2 h5 37.h4 Rxc2+ 38.Kxc2 Be4+ 39.Kd2 Bxf5 40.Ke2 Ke5 41.Kf3 Bd3 1/2-1/2

                          Position after Black’s 31…c3


                          Round 7, Mar. 25
                          Ding, Liren – Alekseenko, Kirill
                          E00 Queen’s Pawn game

                          1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 Bb4+ 4.Bd2 Be7 5.Bg2 d5 6.Nf3 O-O 7.O-O Nbd7 8.Qc2 c6 9.Bf4 b6 10.Rd1 Ba6 11.Nbd2 Rc8 12.Rac1 Nh5 13.Be3 Nhf6 14.Bg5 Bb7 15.Ne5 Nxe5 16.dxe5 Ng4 17.Bxe7 Qxe7 18.Nf3 f6 19.exf6 Nxf6 20.Bh3 Rce8 21.Qa4 c5 22.b4 cxb4 23.Qxa7 Ne4 24.Qxb6 Nc3 25.Re1 dxc4 26.a3 Bd5 27.Qxb4 Qxb4 28.axb4 Nxe2+ 29.Rxe2 Rxf3 30.Bg2 Rff8 31.Rd2 Rb8 32.Bxd5 exd5 33.Rxd5 Rxb4 34.Rc2 Rc8 35.Kf1 c3 36.Ke2 Rb7 37.Rd3 Rb2 38.Kd1 Rb1+ 39.Ke2 Rb2 40.Kd1 Rb1+ 1/2-1/2

                          Round 7, Mar. 25
                          Giri, Anish – Grischuk, Alexander
                          A20 English Opening

                          1.c4 e5 2.g3 c6 3.Nf3 e4 4.Nd4 d5 5.cxd5 Qxd5 6.Nc2 Nf6 7.Nc3 Qe5 8.Bg2 Na6 9.O-O Be7 10.Ne3 h5 11.d4 exd3 12.exd3 Qd4 13.Nc2 Qg4 14.Bf4 Qxd1 15.Raxd1 Bg4 16.Rd2 O-O-O 17.d4 Nc7 18.Ne3 Be6 19.d5 Ncxd5 20.Ncxd5 Nxd5 21.Nxd5 Bxd5 22.Rxd5 Rxd5 23.Bxd5 cxd5 24.Rc1+ Kd7 25.Rc7+ Ke6 26.Rxb7 Rc8 27.Rxa7 Rc2 28.Be3 Bf6 29.Ra4 Bxb2 30.Kg2 d4 31.Bxd4 Bxd4 32.Rxd4 Rxa2 33.Re4+ Kf6 34.Rf4+ Ke6 35.Re4+ Kf6 36.Rf4+ Ke6 37.Re4+ Kf6 38.Rf4+ Ke6 39.h4 g6 40.Re4+ Kf6 1/2-1/2

                          Position after Black’s 28…Bf6


                          - Wow, Sasha finished a game before move 40 with 15 minutes on the clock!

                          Round 7, Mar. 25
                          MVL – Nepomniachtchi, Ian
                          C18 French, Winawer, Advance

                          1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.h4 Qc7 8.h5 h6 9.Rb1 b6 10.Qg4 Rg8 11.Bb5+ Kf8 12.Bd3 Ba6 13.dxc5 Bxd3 14.cxd3 Nd7 15.d4 bxc5 16.Qd1 Qa5 17.Bd2 Rb8 18.Ne2 c4 19.O-O Rb6 20.Qc2 Rh8 21.a4 Ke8 22.Rb4 Nc6 23.f4 Ne7 24.Rfb1 f5 25.Rb5 Qa6 26.Bc1 Kf7 27.Ba3 Rhb8 28.Bxe7 Kxe7 29.g4 Rxb5 30.axb5 Rxb5 31.gxf5 Rxb1+ 32.Qxb1 exf5 33.Ng3 Qb6 34.Nxf5+ Kf8 35.Qa1 Qe6 36.Ng3 Qg4 37.Kg2 Qxf4 38.Qxa7 Ke7 39.Qa3+ Kd8 40.Qd6 g5 41.hxg6 h5 42.g7 1-0

                          Position after White’s 33.Ng3


                          Comments from the Chat

                          Simon Williams - Nepo's positions looks horrible. I gave up these French Defence positions where you haven't castled when I couldn't even grow a beard. You never want to play...c4 either. Predicting a @Vachier_Lagrave win, which will open things up!

                          - MVL plays 21.a4 - Magnus: "Cool as a French cucumber!"

                          Verdicts on MVL-Nepo

                          Grischuk: "If you put a knife to my throat I would say White is winning, but I'm unsure..."

                          Giri: "If you put a knife on Alexander's throat I will say White is winning"

                          Chess24 - French no. 1 MVL stops Nepo and becomes co-leader after crushing his opponent's French Defence!

                          Standings after Round Seven

                          1-2 Nepo, MVL 4.5
                          3-6 Caruana, Giri, Wang Hao, Grischuk 3.5
                          7-8 Ding Liren, Alekseenko 2.5


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Hans Jung View Post
                            MVL played the classic pawn break 29.g4! and Nepo's kingside position started to collapse. MVL wrapped it up nicely 1 - 0
                            A commentator excitingly talked about "Freddy." I didn't understand who he was referring to. And then "Gary," too. Oh, I never knew that these are files names. I enjoy playing games with Freddy (pawn to f5) and Gary (pawn to g4).


                            • #89


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Erik Malmsten View Post

                                A commentator excitingly talked about "Freddy." I didn't understand who he was referring to. And then "Gary," too. Oh, I never knew that these are files names. I enjoy playing games with Freddy (pawn to f5) and Gary (pawn to g4).
                                I didnt know that Erik (I just thought it was young kids at the St Louis club making it up) , so thats chess terminology now!? I guess I'll have to add that to my commentary?!