Context: Canadian women's curling championship 2021 starts tomorrow!!

[Frank Dixon]

The Canadian women's curling championship 2021 starts tomorrow in Calgary. The event will be held inside a bubble, with 18 teams. TV coverage on TSN starts tomorrow night, and runs through Feb. 28.
Canadian curling is getting it done with a national event during the pandemic. Now, the Canadian Curling Association has a TV contract, and better financial credentials than Chess Canada. But it is interesting to see this event go forward, at a time when national events in Canadian chess are at a standstill.
Also, as an avid curling fan myself, I am looking forward to the event; the 2013 version of this championship was staged in Kingston (my home), as was the 2020 men's championship. I got the chance to see several games both times!!

[Peter McKillop]

I wonder if there are any Neil Frarey-type people in the curling world? That is, people who accuse the national governing body, Curling Canada, of the "continual & persistent degradation of women" (Frarey re FIDE) because women have their own events and championships? For the record, I enjoy watching women's curling just as much as men's curling.

[Neil Frarey]

I wonder if there are any Neil Frarey-type people in the curling world? That is, people who accuse the national governing body, Curling Canada, of the "continual & persistent degradation of women" (Frarey re FIDE) because women have their own events and championships? For the record, I enjoy watching women's curling just as much as men's curling.

Do the Women curl with a lighter stone than the mens? Perhaps the rings in the house are larger? You know Pandemic Peter, to lessen talent needed? Perhaps the distance between hack and house isn't as great as in the mens?

FIDE persist with its continual degradation as I have well pointed out.

But by all means have separate and mixed chess championships ... just as they do in curling.

[Peter McKillop]

FIDE persist with its continual degradation as I have well pointed out.

Give us a couple of examples of how FIDE continually degrades women.

[Neil Frarey]

Give us a couple of examples of how FIDE continually degrades women.

You & the CFC & FIDE can start here...

Woman Candidate Master is the lowest-ranking title awarded by FIDE. This title may be achieved by gaining a FIDE rating of 2000 or more. FIDE introduced this title in 2002.

...and then work your way up through the title thresholds.

__________________


So enlighten us Pandemic Peter ... Why is the Woman Candidate Master is the lowest-ranking title awarded by FIDE?

[Peter McKillop]

You & the CFC & FIDE can start here...

Woman Candidate Master is the lowest-ranking title awarded by FIDE. This title may be achieved by gaining a FIDE rating of 2000 or more. FIDE introduced this title in 2002.

...and then work your way up through the title thresholds.

__________________


So enlighten us Pandemic Peter ... Why is the Woman Candidate Master is the lowest-ranking title awarded by FIDE?

Maybe FIDE's women-only titles aren't the greatest idea but, so what? Women are intelligent people. They're perfectly capable of making their own decisions regarding whether or not they want women's titles. In the meantime women have the option of going after the titles which have no gender association - CM, FM, IM, etc. Nothing is limiting them, apart from misogynistic men. Women don't need your help, Neil. They can figure it out all by themselves.

[Neil Frarey]

Maybe FIDE's women-only titles aren't the greatest idea ...

You should of quit right there, Pandemic Peter.

Admitting FIDE's, and in turn the CFC's, damning characteristic towards Women ... but nope ... not you & your kind!

They're far from 'the greatest idea' ... they're the shittiest, demeaning, degrading kind of idea!!!

[Peter McKillop]

You should of quit right there, Pandemic Peter.

Admitting FIDE's, and in turn the CFC's, damning characteristic towards Women ... but nope ... not you & your kind!

They're far from 'the greatest idea' ... they're the shittiest, demeaning, degrading kind of idea!!!

So Kneel, you're pretty good at flapping your wings and making a lot of self-important noise but are you actually doing anything to set matters right? (that's "right" as you see it) For example, have you told any WIMs that their titles are shitty, demeaning, and degrading? If not, why not? What exactly are you doing to correct this international travesty? The chess-playing women of the world are looking to you, buddy:

"Please Neil, help us because we're too dumb to figure it out on our own. We need a real man like you to lower yourself to our level and show us the true way."

[Brad Thomson]

The very existence of a women's program in chess is itself degrading to women because there is no reason on earth why women/girls cannot play chess as well as men/boys. Unless someone is prepared to claim unequivocally that males naturally play chess better than females simply and only because they are males, then one is being hypocritical and self-contradictory in supporting chess events that are sexist by disallowing males to complete simply and only because they are males.

It is not like curling, hockey, or any number of other sports where physical strength is a factor that gives males a natural advantage.

In our overtly politically correct world, it is astonishing that chess is so old fashioned and behind the times. The reason for this is clearly because not enough women complain about it. The reason that they do not complain is that the sexism in this case works to their advantage.

I agree fully with Neil when he suggests that the lower thresholds involved for women's titles is degrading and demeaning. It is, it is an absolute insult. As is the entire notion that males play chess better than females. We have got to abolish sexism in chess and this means no women specific events that exclude males simply and only because of their gender.

[Bob Armstrong]

Nava (Shterenberg) Starr, 8 times Canadian Women's Champion, once presented a paper to the CFC arguing that women inherently could not play chess as well as men.

If I have this wrong, Nava or Sasha can correct me (Don't know if any current CFC Voting Member was at that presentation - it was a long time ago now).

I disagree with Nava. The impediment is situational and historical and to do with misogyny. It is not biological inferiority re this type of thinking.

Bob A

[Kerry Liles]

Nava (Shterenberg) Starr, 8 times Canadian Women's Champion, once presented a paper to the CFC arguing that women inherently could not play chess as well as men.

If I have this wrong, Nava or Sasha can correct me (Don't know if any current CFC Voting Member was at that presentation - it was a long time ago now).

I disagree with Nava. The impediment is situational and historical and to do with misogyny. It is not biological inferiority re this type of thinking.

Bob A

It would be good to know what were her argument(s) ... she *may* have been referring to the built-in impediments to progress for young girls - they are historically left out of most tournaments/clubs etc. whereas males are encouraged.

I can tell you that I have recently played several young boys and girls and many of them are very sharp tactically (and I would say even strategically)
and I don't care whether my young opponent is male or female - they have skills and are very dangerous players!

I only hope each of them that wants to continue playing in tournaments is able to do so.

[Frank Dixon]

While I of course grant the privilege to others to comment, respectfully, as they wish, the direction this thread has gone disappoints me.

Rather than focus on the gender issues with sports inclusivity, I wanted to contrast and compare the Curling championship being organized during our very difficult times with the fact that there is apparently no Canadian Chess championship being organized for 2021. And, there WILL be a Canadian Men's Curling Championship for 2021, starting shortly after the Women's event is completed, also in Calgary. Both are annual events of long standing, qualifying the champions to their respective World Championships, where Canada has historically performed very well.

[Sam Sharpe]

While I of course grant the privilege to others to comment, respectfully, as they wish, the direction this thread has gone disappoints me....

Welcome to Chesstalk!! (sad but true)

[Brad Thomson]

The impediment is situational and historical and to do with misogyny.

Agreed, and the problem continues so long as someone may be banned from a chess event due solely to their gender.

[Fred McKim]

While I of course grant the privilege to others to comment, respectfully, as they wish, the direction this thread has gone disappoints me.

Rather than focus on the gender issues with sports inclusivity, I wanted to contrast and compare the Curling championship being organized during our very difficult times with the fact that there is apparently no Canadian Chess championship being organized for 2021. And, there WILL be a Canadian Men's Curling Championship for 2021, starting shortly after the Women's event is completed, also in Calgary. Both are annual events of long standing, qualifying the champions to their respective World Championships, where Canada has historically performed very well.

The CFC does not have the finances or infrastructure to create a bubble like Curling Canada has. We (CFC Board) fully expect some form of Canadian Closed and Women's Closed will be held in 2021.