CBC "Fifth Estate" on child prodiges in chess...

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  • #46
    I checked my chess legal consultants and they said your fact checkers need to get their acts factually straightened out. Wikipedia is frowned on by some but in this case they are right and you also need to accept Sam's wise words.

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    • #47
      A very strange claim that Nona Gaprindashvili got for "Won WWC" mentioned in the website. In 1978 she lost the world title to Maya Chiburdanidze (who did not receive GM title till 1984; and also "Won WWC" per that site...).

      The Chess Life 1979'01 has details on the Nona's GM title reported by Paul Benko.
      http://uscf1-nyc1.aodhosting.com/CL-...79/1979_01.pdf
      (page 15)

      ...in Buenos Aires in November1978 FIDE bestowed upon Nona Gaprindashvili the (men') international grandmaster title. Not only is she the only woman ever to have received this title, she is the only woman ever to have deserved it. It is regrettable, therefore, that she did not actually earn the title in the regular way: FIDE requires that to earn the grandmaster title a player must achieve certain minimum scores in tournaments consisting of at least twenty-four games in aggregate (the description is highly oversimplified, but you get the idea), and Nona was two or three games short. Yet the FIDE Qualifications Commission voted to give her the title. In my opinion, this historic occasion should not have been allowed to carry even this slight tarnish. However, Nona is already proving that she is the equal or better of many grandmasters: she tied for first at Lone Pine 1977, defeating four grandmasters in the process, and she tied for second (with GM Raymond Keene) at Dortmund 1978 , behind GM Ulf Andersson and ahead of GMs Aivars Gipslis and Ladislas Farago.

      ( She won against U.Andersson in Dortmund in the endgame https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1019836 )


      My book on rules is dated 1980, it has a note that title rules were amended in 1978 but without mentioning what changes were done. After 1978: GM -- at least two norms; 24 games, and 2450 in the active rating list. Women's World Champship -- the IM title.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post

        You sound like you have someone living rent-free in your head.
        https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess960-chess-variants/an-interesting-chess-variant-on-chessbasecom

        Originally posted by Bonham
        I found this on chessbase.com, it's an anti-computer type of chess variant. Seems very simple and tactical:
        http://en.chessbase.com/post/option-...by-paul-bonham
        Credit goes to the CFC deep research bureau who ran all inputs through the sock puppet detection software and came to the definitive conclusion as to the source of the post.
        Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Monday, 29th March, 2021, 02:41 PM.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Hans Jung View Post
          I checked my chess legal consultants and they said your fact checkers need to get their acts factually straightened out. Wikipedia is frowned on by some but in this case they are right and you also need to accept Sam's wise words.
          The CBC fact checkers suggested that Susan Polgar was the first woman to earn the GM title through norms. Susan Polgar seems to believe the same thing. I have no dog in this fight. Just reporting what was said to me.

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          • #50
            A couple of other sources may provide definitive proof on this question as to whether Nona became a GM from norms, or through becoming Women's World Champion:
            1) Chess Informant, issued twice per year in the 1970s and 1980s, published in its appendices a list of new title holders, along with FIDE news. I don't have the issues from 1978 to 1980 handy right now, but I have a Kingston friend who has the complete set from that era, so I could check that with him. So that would be a reliable source, one would think.
            2) Looking at chessgames.com, the file for Nona states she received her four international titles at the following dates: WIM 1961, IM 1962, WGM 1976, GM 1980.
            3) Also, on the question as to whether Nona competed against men: she did so at early stages of her career, once she won the title of Women's Champion: Hastings 'B' 1963-64, and Reykjavik 1964. She was at both events with GM Mikhail Tal, as he relates in his book 'The Life and Games of Mikhail Tal' (1975). I have this book and just re-read those sections. She was the only woman in the field for both of those round-robin events. Chessmetrics.com has the playing rosters for both events. Walter Tevis's 1983 book 'The Queen's Gambit' does NOT discuss this; I just checked my copy (incidentally, a new paperback version of this book is now on sale!!), and it is not there. Remember that Tevis was a keen chess player; although I am not sure if he ever played USCF events. He was known for being a thorough researcher. So that was some incorrect artistic license by the producers of 'The Queen's Gambit' series; apparently Nona is not happy about this error.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Frank Dixon View Post
              2) Looking at chessgames.com, the file for Nona states she received ...WGM 1976
              Seems that was the year when WGM was established.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post

                Credit goes to the CFC deep research bureau who ran all inputs through the sock puppet detection software and came to the definitive conclusion as to the source of the post.
                From which Chesstalk post do you reference Bonham's quote, Vlad?

                CT_quoteref.gif

                Thanks!

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                • #53
                  There's a couple of critical items missing as seen here from one of Paul Bonham's reply to me...

                  CT_quoteref.2.gif

                  1. First name ...2. arrow icon to indicate link to the post.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Neil Frarey View Post

                    From which Chesstalk post do you reference Bonham's quote, Vlad?

                    CT_quoteref.gif

                    Thanks!
                    It was chess.com's discussion board posted by Pargat Perrer. The thread is referenced in the same post. I am just teasing the culturally appropriating Pargat Bonham, who carries on a long tradition of pretending to be something he is not. The owner of this board could check it by cross-referencing IP addresses for Bonham and Pargat.

                    Richard Bachman was outed as Stephen King because someone recognized his writing style.
                    Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Monday, 29th March, 2021, 07:01 PM.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post

                      It was chess.com's discussion board posted by Pargat Perrer. The thread is referenced in the same post. I am just teasing the culturally appropriating Pargat Bonham, who carries on a long tradition of pretending to be something he is not. The owner of this board could check it by cross-referencing IP addresses for Bonham and Pargat.

                      Richard Bachman was outed as Stephen King because someone recognized his writing style.
                      I'll go on record as saying I think Paul and Pargat have different writing styles and are not the same person.
                      "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
                      "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
                      "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post

                        It was chess.com's discussion board posted by Pargat Perrer. The thread is referenced in the same post. I am just teasing the culturally appropriating Pargat Bonham, who carries on a long tradition of pretending to be something he is not. The owner of this board could check it by cross-referencing IP addresses for Bonham and Pargat.
                        It seems you fabricated an entire Chesstalk post as belonging to Paul Bonham to implicate his guilt.

                        Fabricate to implicate guilt, where have I seen that before?

                        But what does strike me as interesting ... Pargat Perrer joined & posted his comment only a couple of days after the Chessbase article ... coincidence? Maybe. But I can't seem to find a rating or any games played by Pargat Perrer on chess.com. He joined just promote an article? Most folks join chess.com to play chess!

                        Hm?

                        As for the IP thingy, he could be using a VPN or a Dynamic IP ... but maybe not.

                        :)!




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                        • #57
                          Vlad and Neil - since I was the one that started this thread on the "Fifth Estate" program, I kindly ask that you stay on topic, and take your off-topic comments elsewhere.

                          Thank you.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Neil Frarey View Post

                            It seems you fabricated an entire Chesstalk post as belonging to Paul Bonham to implicate his guilt.

                            Fabricate to implicate guilt, where have I seen that before?

                            But what does strike me as interesting ... Pargat Perrer joined & posted his comment only a couple of days after the Chessbase article ... coincidence? Maybe. But I can't seem to find a rating or any games played by Pargat Perrer on chess.com. He joined just promote an article? Most folks join chess.com to play chess!

                            Hm?

                            As for the IP thingy, he could be using a VPN or a Dynamic IP ... but maybe not.

                            :)!

                            What seems to be the case is that Vlad Drkulec apparently thinks only Paul Bonham might be interested in both chess variants and in poker. He apparently has Paul Bonham living in his head and because I am posting some things on chess variants and a few on poker, he thinks I am he.

                            I do know Paul Bonham, and in fact I got interested in his Option Chess idea when we were both in Boston MA.

                            I got interested in eventually making a web site out of the idea and getting people to try Option Chess because I believe even now that is a a near-perfect evolution of chess that keeps a lot of what chess players are familiar with and yet adds so much more, including some of the skills I mentioned about poker. We also considered for development another idea that Mr. Bonham also owned and never made public... however, I should add that Mr. Bonham had a tragedy of losing his wife to illness a few years back and our communications have become less and less. He is still in the U.S. if the IP address thing is attempted, if Mr. Bonham still logs into this site periodically.

                            I do recall that I even sent by email a document, I think it was to Kerry Liles, about Option Chess. It had 2 complete games with analysis played between Mr. Bonham and a 2400-rated (FIDE) player in Europe. I never heard back from Mr. Liles as to his impressions of the games. I was requested to send Mr. Liles the document by Mr. Bonham and I"m not sure but that may have been how I became aware of this ChessTalk site.

                            Mr. Bonham may in fact have triggered my own interest in chess variants. The one that I posted about here in a different thread is my own invention.

                            I do wonder how many other sock puppets are dancing around in Vlad Drkulec's head, as he seems to be a bit unstable. My IP address will turn out to be very close to Guelph Ontario, I wonder if next Vlad Drkulec will think I am a sock puppet for Hal Bond!

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post

                              I do wonder how many other sock puppets are dancing around in Vlad Drkulec's head, as he seems to be a bit unstable. My IP address will turn out to be very close to Guelph Ontario, I wonder if next Vlad Drkulec will think I am a sock puppet for Hal Bond!
                              There were lots. Leather Cuffs was the strangest.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post

                                I'll go on record as saying I think Paul and Pargat have different writing styles and are not the same person.
                                Of course you will. I can't take credit for outing him. It was just pointed out to me by a couple of individuals. Anyway, it is likely we will know for sure in the not too distant future.

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