Interesting article about China and USA

[Dilip Panjwani]

https://hbr.org/2021/05/americans-dont-know-how-capitalist-china-is

From above link:

What is it that Americans don’t understand about China?

They don’t know how capitalist China is. China’s rapid economic growth is the result of its embrace of a market economy and private enterprise. China is among the most open markets in the world: It is the largest trading nation and also the largest recipient of foreign direct investment, surpassing the United States in 2020. The major focus of government expenditure is domestic infrastructure. China now has better highways, rail systems, bridges, and airports than the United States does. For example, over the past 15 years it has built the longest high-speed rail system in the world. At 22,000 miles, it is twice as long as the rest of the world’s combined. China’s high-speed rail could cover the distance between Boston and Chicago in about four hours, whereas Amtrak’s fastest service takes 22 hours. One reason China can spend so much on infrastructure is that its defense budget, after years of increases, is still only about a quarter that of the United States.

And what is it that the Chinese don’t understand about the United States?

They don’t know how socialist it is, with its Social Security system and its policies to tax the rich by collecting capital gains taxes. China is still in the process of building a social safety net that is largely undefined and underfunded, and it has no tax on personal capital gains. In 2020 China had more billionaires than the U.S. did, and it outpaces the U.S. three to one in minting them. Consequently, inequality is greater in China than in the United States, measured by the Gini coefficient.

[Erik Malmsten]

https://hbr.org/2021/05/americans-do...alist-china-is

From above link:

What is it that Americans don’t understand about China?

, , , One reason China can spend so much on infrastructure is that its defense budget, after years of increases, is still only about a quarter that of the United States.

' ' '

People here have complained about the profits of Big Pharma off of the taxpayer's dime, but it's the Americans much bigger Military-Industrial Complex that eats most of the tax money, preventing investments in infrastructure, education, hospitals and housing. As well as lobbying for wars leading to killing soldiers abroad.

[Bob Armstrong]

Democratic Marxism calls for the abolition of NATIONS...... the problem in the world is the superpowers doing their geopolitical maneuvering. All else suffers.

We need our governance to return to smaller "Local Political Units (LPU's)"; we need government that is much closer to the elector. Direct democracy, as opposed to representative democracy, had its advantage, even if population now makes it administratively so unwieldy.


~ Bob A (T-S/P)

[Brad Thomson]

Talk about systems all you want, but the problem is the people not the systems. We value money/possessions over lives. We need to change our attitude, then any system will work, no system will work if we do not change our attitude of selfishness and greed.

[Frank Dixon]

Thanks to Dilip for providing the link.

Certainly China has many impressive aspects. I am especially struck by its rapid rail network. North America has not gotten going on this, and trails not only China but also Japan and many European nations.

What the article DOES NOT SAY is that China also has about 400 million people, more than the entire population of the USA, who are living in rural regions at a subsistence level. But about 70 years ago, when the Communists took power, perhaps 90 per cent of the population were essentially serfs, with a low life expectancy for the average person. The elite, a small population, lived very well. The lot of the average Chinese person has improved dramatically during that ensuing time. China was an ancient civilization, however, dating back many thousands of years, and had already developed many features of a mature nation. It was perhaps the world's most advanced nation circa the era 1200-1300.

One of my engineering classmates has spent almost 20 years in China now, working on the major engineering project known the Three Gorges. This may be the largest civil engineering project in history. Their aim is to control flood levels, and to provide water for irrigation and development.

And a friend of mine here in Kingston recently spent an academic term at a Chinese university; he has told me many interesting stories from his time there.

I must say, however, that I am very concerned about the upcoming Winter Olympics, due to start in Beijing in about ten days, especially with the situation with COVID-19, in the country where the virus started. I was hoping the Games would be postponed for a year, or that major nations would boycott. Neither happened; nations are believing the Chinese government's claims that the Games will be safe. We shall see.

[Neil Frarey]

And what is it that the Chinese don't understand about China?

Genocide
Human Rights
Individual Rights
...

[Kerry Liles]

And what is it that the Chinese don't understand about China?

Genocide
Human Rights
Individual Rights
...

+1

I am way past the point of being tired of the tendency of China to do whatever the hell they please:
- arbitrary detention, sentencing and execution(?) of foreign nationals as "retribution"
- completely ignore basic human rights
- persecution of Uyghurs and genocide associated with that
- barking about Taiwan (get over it)
- pollute the planet like they own it (we are also guilty of this but on a much lesser scale)

In the meantime, we import all manner of products (a.k.a. junk) from there and bolster their economy and
generally just enable all of the above.
I would love to see a serious smackdown of them from a sanctions point of view but I don't imagine that
will ever happen since capitalist greed always trumps human need (no pun intended)

[Gary Hua]

Understanding China | Facebook

Be open minded and have a look at this FB group ( above link )

[Neil Frarey]

+1

I am way past the point of being tired of the tendency of China to do whatever the hell they please:
- arbitrary detention, sentencing and execution(?) of foreign nationals as "retribution"
- completely ignore basic human rights
- persecution of Uyghurs and genocide associated with that
- barking about Taiwan (get over it)
- pollute the planet like they own it (we are also guilty of this but on a much lesser scale)

In the meantime, we import all manner of products (a.k.a. junk) from there and bolster their economy and
generally just enable all of the above.
I would love to see a serious smackdown of them from a sanctions point of view but I don't imagine that
will ever happen since capitalist greed always trumps human need (no pun intended)

Add to that China's selfish refusal to allow for the World Health Organization (WHO) plan for a second phase of an investigation into the origins of COVID-19.

International harmony deserves better than that ... !!!

[Sam Sharpe]

Don't forget that the US refuses to recognize the authority of the ICC when it comes to their citizens.

[Pargat Perrer]

+1

I am way past the point of being tired of the tendency of China to do whatever the hell they please:
- arbitrary detention, sentencing and execution(?) of foreign nationals as "retribution"
- completely ignore basic human rights
- persecution of Uyghurs and genocide associated with that
- barking about Taiwan (get over it)
- pollute the planet like they own it (we are also guilty of this but on a much lesser scale)

In the meantime, we import all manner of products (a.k.a. junk) from there and bolster their economy and
generally just enable all of the above.
I would love to see a serious smackdown of them from a sanctions point of view but I don't imagine that
will ever happen since capitalist greed always trumps human need (no pun intended)

The situation between USA and China is complicated by the fact that China holds so much in U.S. Treasury bonds. If fact, without China buying up U.S. Treasury bonds, the U.S. would have been bankrupted years ago.... ?

I put a question mark at the end of that because perhaps there are opposing viewpoints on that particular aspect.

I do wonder about a U.S. - China war in whatever form that might take: what would become of those multi-billion $ Treasury bonds that China holds? If they somehow became worthless, what would that mean for China? Obviously they would stop buying any further such bonds .... would both countries be bankrupted?

[Kerry Liles]

Understanding China | Facebook

Be open minded and have a look at this FB group ( above link )

Not sure I would put "open minded" and a Facebook group in the same context.
It is incredibly hard to determine what people are actually saying in most posts with all the enhanced rhetoric.
I cannot decide whether that FB group is pro-China or against China... maybe both?

[Neil Frarey]

The situation between USA and China is complicated by the fact that China holds so much in U.S. Treasury bonds. If fact, without China buying up U.S. Treasury bonds, the U.S. would have been bankrupted years ago.... ?

I put a question mark at the end of that because perhaps there are opposing viewpoints on that particular aspect.

I do wonder about a U.S. - China war in whatever form that might take: what would become of those multi-billion $ Treasury bonds that China holds? If they somehow became worthless, what would that mean for China? Obviously they would stop buying any further such bonds .... would both countries be bankrupted?

China holds about 0.3 % of the US public debt ... 0.3%

[Pargat Perrer]

China holds about 0.3 % of the US public debt ... 0.3%

Actually we are both wrong.

You are wrong with your 0.3% number, the actual % is about 10 times or more your figure. I am referring only to U.S. Treasuries, maybe your definition of "US public debt" includes more than that.

However, I am also wrong in implying that China is still the major backer of the U.S. economy in terms of government debt. It may have been true in the 90s or early 2000s, but it seems things have changed.

And it seems many experts are agreed that China could not use its bond holdings as a weapon against the U.S., it would hurt their own currency too much, causing their goods to become dramatically more expensive around the world.

[Neil Frarey]

Actually we are both wrong.

You are wrong with your 0.3% number, the actual % is about 10 times or more your figure. I am referring only to U.S. Treasuries, maybe your definition of "US public debt" includes more than that.

However, I am also wrong in implying that China is still the major backer of the U.S. economy in terms of government debt. It may have been true in the 90s or early 2000s, but it seems things have changed.

And it seems many experts are agreed that China could not use its bond holdings as a weapon against the U.S., it would hurt their own currency too much, causing their goods to become dramatically more expensive around the world.

China holds about 1.1T of about 28.2T current US public debt.

Good to read that major American corps are now agreeing with Trump's MAGA policies ... Intel setting up shop in OHIO :) 20B worth :)