Vincent Keymer and Hans Niemann

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  • Vincent Keymer and Hans Niemann

    Two of my favorites to watch, GM Vincent Keymer and GM Hans Niemann both crossed 2700 at the same time this last week. I at first thought Vincent Keymer was just another wonder boy from Germany and that he would get his grandmaster title and then disappear into academia. His continued success has been a pleasant surprise. He is and will continue to be a big part of Peter Leko's rich chess legacy as Peter mentored him and brought him forward as a very strong grandmaster. The charts first show Vincent crossing 2500 in November 2018 when he had just turned 14 and he crossed 2700 in Sept this year. Hans Niemann on the other hand was stalled at under 2500 from Sept 2018 to the begiinning of 2021. In February 2021 he first went over 2500 and since then it has been a meteoric rise to 2700.

    I'm looking forward to continuous great play from these two!

  • #2
    Agreed Hans! I have been watching Keymer for some years, expecting his music or academics gradually take over. Good on Leko for keeping him in the game and on the march!

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    • #3
      Vincent Keymer now gets to play Magnus in the Generation Cup, his reward for great play so far.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Hans Jung View Post
        Two of my favorites to watch, GM Vincent Keymer and GM Hans Niemann both crossed 2700 at the same time this last week. I at first thought Vincent Keymer was just another wonder boy from Germany and that he would get his grandmaster title and then disappear into academia. His continued success has been a pleasant surprise. He is and will continue to be a big part of Peter Leko's rich chess legacy as Peter mentored him and brought him forward as a very strong grandmaster. The charts first show Vincent crossing 2500 in November 2018 when he had just turned 14 and he crossed 2700 in Sept this year. Hans Niemann on the other hand was stalled at under 2500 from Sept 2018 to the begiinning of 2021. In February 2021 he first went over 2500 and since then it has been a meteoric rise to 2700.

        I'm looking forward to continuous great play from these two!
        So Keymer takes almost 4 years to go from 2500 to 2700 but Niemann does it in about 18 months? Seems pretty sensational.

        p.s. To be clear, is there precedent for someone in their late teens jumping 200 points, near the top end of the scale no less (!), in 18 months?
        Last edited by Peter McKillop; Friday, 23rd September, 2022, 01:22 PM.
        "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
        "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
        "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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        • #5
          Bobby Fischer in his middle teens.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Hans Jung View Post
            Bobby Fischer in his middle teens.
            OK, I don't claim that what follows is scientific but I'm posting it for the sake of the discussion. Using the graph material at Jeff Sonas' Chessmetrics website, here is the approximate amount of time taken by various well known players to go from 2500 to 2700, with the starting point in their teen years:

            Niemann 1.5 yr 2021-22
            Fischer 2 yr 1957-59
            Karpov 3 yr 1969-72
            Tal 4 yr 1954-58
            Keymer 4 yr 2018-22
            Topalov 4 yr 1991-95
            Adams 4 yr 1988-92
            Anand 6 yr 1985-91

            So, kudos to Niemann, or is there something else going on? To the best of my knowledge, Niemann is the only person listed above who is a known cheater. Is he reformed or, once a cheater always a cheater?
            "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
            "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
            "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
              To the best of my knowledge, Niemann is the only person listed above who is a known cheater. Is he reformed or, once a cheater always a cheater?
              Was Tal a part of the group of Soviet system dominated players whom Fischer accused of cheating by giving each other easy draws while concentrating all of their energies upon beating him? Niemann admitted to cheating online, only Magnus has "evidence" that he has cheated over the board.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Brad Thomson View Post

                Was Tal a part of the group of Soviet system dominated players whom Fischer accused of cheating by giving each other easy draws while concentrating all of their energies upon beating him? Niemann admitted to cheating online, only Magnus has "evidence" that he has cheated over the board.
                According to Korchnoi, he and Tal were not part of the alleged Curacao cheating conspiracy (I assume you're referring to that). In fact, Tal and Fischer were on good terms. Fischer was the only competitor to visit Tal in hospital in Curacao. Magnus has made no clarifying statement about his behaviour that I've seen so I would appreciate knowing where you found out that Magnus has evidence of Niemann cheating OTB.

                p.s. I forgot to ask, what does Tal have to do with a thread about Niemann?
                Last edited by Peter McKillop; Saturday, 24th September, 2022, 12:15 PM.
                "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
                "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
                "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post

                  OK, I don't claim that what follows is scientific but I'm posting it for the sake of the discussion. Using the graph material at Jeff Sonas' Chessmetrics website, here is the approximate amount of time taken by various well known players to go from 2500 to 2700, with the starting point in their teen years:

                  Niemann 1.5 yr 2021-22
                  Fischer 2 yr 1957-59
                  Karpov 3 yr 1969-72
                  Tal 4 yr 1954-58
                  Keymer 4 yr 2018-22
                  Topalov 4 yr 1991-95
                  Adams 4 yr 1988-92
                  Anand 6 yr 1985-91

                  So, kudos to Niemann, or is there something else going on? To the best of my knowledge, Niemann is the only person listed above who is a known cheater. Is he reformed or, once a cheater always a cheater?
                  One of the recent episodes of the podcast Perpetual Chess discuss Niemann’s rating rise. (As well as Niemann ad infinitum) tldr- it is pretty good but not beyond belief

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