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White King f1, pawns f2, g2, h2.
Black King c8, pawns c7, b7, a7.
What is the objective evaluation with White to move?
I once played this ending out with a schoolboy from the republic of Kalmykia. Apparently in Kalmyk chess schools they start very simple, and this was the only position he knew. But it is quite an interesting one and useful for understanding ideas of Zugzwang and corresponding squares...
Never seen this exact position but once on a chess server a few years ago I saw one with kings on d and e. And the sides were switched (Kd1, Pawns a2-b2-c2), black (Ke8, Pawns f7-g7-h7).
Played this for a while and it seemed that white should force a win, and it was the general consensus by the players who had fun with this variant (only played in bullet of course). In anyway, it's great practice. One other that's fun is pawns-only. Just remove all other pieces (knights, bishops, rooks and queens) and play pawns and kings, original positions. It's surprising what we learn from pawn endgames. This was a draw if either side chose to lock and do nothing, to win players would have to try and activate kings quite early and it sometimes actually became fun and chaotic. Also fun to play online bullet (1 minute or 2 mins)
I got to try these again ;-) brings back memories
I don't remember exactly, since I think it depends on where the kings start, but I think it's actually a win for whomever DOESN'T have the move to start. I haven't looked at it since I lived in Brantford though (2005 or earlier) as it was a club puzzle at one point.
I think this is a win for white. Both sides run their pawns as hard as they can, the Kings have to get in front, and there's a zugswang. Averback gives a very similar position:
White: K/d1, Ps on a2, b2 and c2
Black: K/e8, Ps on f7, g7 and h7
"Whoever starts, wins" (ref: Shakhmatye Okonchaniya, Peshechne, #466, 1983 softcover)
The play given leads to an earlier position (#461):
White: K/g3, Ps a4, b4 and c4
Black: K/b6, Ps on f5, g5 and h5
and again "Whoever starts, wins" and the main line of play is 1.a5+ Ka6 2.c5 h4+ 3.Kh3
f4 4.c6 f3 5.b5+ Ka7 6.b6+ Kb8 7.a6 g4+ 8.Kh2 g3+ 9.Kg1 h3 10.a7+ Ka8 11.c7 and White wins.
It just confirms that even the best computer program with tablebases can't play the ending good enough...
If the position isn't in the tablebases yet - a human being still could beat the program!
I would like to play this ending against your Rybka - my first move is 1. Ke2:
40 years ago, I solved this position after about 2 weeks of analysis. There is no draw possible! Either the first player wins or loses, depending who gets zugzwanged. I had the opportunity to play the position against top GMs with resulting 100% scores playing either side. Won 2 games, one each side vs Walter Browne then Bent Larsen then even Boris Spassky! They did not want to play more than once each side! Basicly the shtick went: "Boris, which side should win in this position?" After I won with Black, I said "I think Black must be favorite as White gets into zugzwang. Let me try White LOL." That was a dirty trick! Once you know the timing required to win, you win from either side. I even played it about 40 times against Pal Benko who was considered the worlds leading expert on endgames at the time. We played most of a night at Hart House. After losing every game, alternating sides for about three hours GM Benko looked quite disheveled, like he was having a bad hair day! Finally, about 4 am he won a game and soon after another. We then called it a night.
The point is, once you calculate the timing of the position, it doesn't matter who you're up against, you will win.
Anyone wants to back a computer program, I will be happy to oblige. Even money on the games with a side bet: If the computer draws a game, I will pay 3 to 1 for that game. If no draws, I win my bet. Rybka Shmybka!
It just confirms that even the best computer program with tablebases can't play the ending good enough...
If the position isn't in the tablebases yet - a human being still could beat the program!
I would like to play this ending against your Rybka - my first move is 1. Ke2:
Yes a draw is impossible. The only computer I have is an old version of Fritz and amusingly it gives the advantage to Black whether it is White or Black to move in the initial position..there must be a bug in its evaluation function weighting passed pawns on the Queenside more highly than passed pawns on the Kingside.
I defer to the human analytical engines posting above and am certainly not prepared to put blind faith in the silicaon monster.
I remember when I thought king and pawn endings were simple!:)
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