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Ok, I am struggling with my new Chromebook. perhaps someone can post a diagram and proper pgn.
OK, when I played this, my database (albeit small sample) showed 100% winning percentage for White, yet my engine at that time (Stockfish, I think). evaluated it as being clearly in Black's favor. So the obvious conclusion is that nobody has played the computer's move. So make a game of this. Try and guess Black's 11th move. Feel free to get a computer eval, just don't let the computer tell you the move. I of course tried the computer move repeatedly and lost quite abysmally, so I must have picked the wrong plan. Computers are always right.
Just looking at the position it hardly seems possible that Black can be clearly better. White's pawn storm is coming and there's no way for Black to bring his pieces into the game quickly. Nxe4 or Nxd5 to take on h4 doesn't help. At minimize White has good compensation for the pawn.
White looks clearly better in that line even with the pawn down if I don't miss a tactics. Black should prevent g4 with 8... h5.
That being said, 7. g4 looks like a more logical move order for white, before h5 is played. I assume people play 7.f4 because they are used of the main line 6... d6 7. f4.
Agree with Messrs Kirby and Cardin, White looks better after 11.Qf3, but the computer says otherwise. What do your computers say? I know because I let the computer tell me what Black's 11th should be. You can keep guessing ort let your computer tell you what Black should play. Just don't spill that to the board. please PM me with your engine's move
Well the Nf6 needs to move, SF gives the 3 options after ~12 minutes:
Nfd7 at only about +0.5 for white (which I am a bit surprised), certainly the human move with the idea of Na6, c4, Ndc5, Bd7 trying to get some sort of coordination. The kingside holds (although to me it seemed very fragile with the hook on h6, I won't argue SF) but black as a hard time doing something constructive with the huge lack of space.
It gives Ng8 ?! as a second move at about +1.1 for white, I assume that it helps black holdings the kingside together and that it keeps c5 for the other knight, but clogs the kingside pieces for a long time.
And Nh7 at +1.5 for white, that move doesn't make much sense anyways.
Other moves gets hit by g5.
Last edited by Guillaume Cardin; Tuesday, 17th January, 2023, 08:23 AM.
Ok, I am struggling with my new Chromebook. perhaps someone can post a diagram and proper pgn.
OK, when I played this, my database (albeit small sample) showed 100% winning percentage for White, yet my engine at that time (Stockfish, I think). evaluated it as being clearly in Black's favor. So the obvious conclusion is that nobody has played the computer's move. So make a game of this. Try and guess Black's 11th move. Feel free to get a computer eval, just don't let the computer tell you the move. I of course tried the computer move repeatedly and lost quite abysmally, so I must have picked the wrong plan. Computers are always right.
Odd as Stockfish 14 thinks white is north of plus one though Komodo evaluates the position as around plus half a pawn. It is easier to play white I would think because of the space advantage..
Odd as Stockfish 14 thinks white is north of plus one though Komodo evaluates the position as around plus half a pawn. It is easier to play white I would think because of the space advantage..
Hi Vlad
OK, my memory has failed me slightly. What I saw was a small sample in a modern darabase, with a Black favorable engine eval after 11.Qf3, giving only Black's 11th, which no-one had played. It is also possible that no-one had played 10...Qd8 either, in which case the database shows a two move stem line with 10...Qd8 11.Qf3 11...???
I know what the move is. I can tell you the move, or let you evaluate this new information yourself. But I would rather play the line against you first. If you are in Toronto we can meet, or you can challenge me and I will take Black and play the mystery line. I am fguy64 on Lichess and chess.com.
OK, my memory has failed me slightly. What I saw was a small sample in a modern darabase, with a Black favorable engine eval after 11.Qf3, giving only Black's 11th, which no-one had played. It is also possible that no-one had played 10...Qd8 either, in which case the database shows a two move stem line with 10...Qd8 11.Qf3 11...???
I know what the move is. I can tell you the move, or let you evaluate this new information yourself. But I would rather play the line against you first. If you are in Toronto we can meet, or you can challenge me and I will take Black and play the mystery line. I am fguy64 on Lichess and chess.com.
best regards...
I don't play the Trompovsky, though perhaps I could. I tend to be more of a main lines type of guy with some diversions along the way because I have forgotten or never known the theory. I do not find the Tromp that challenging in my limited experience playing against it or observing games where it has been played.
I don't play the Trompovsky, though perhaps I could. I tend to be more of a main lines type of guy with some diversions along the way because I have forgotten or never known the theory. I do not find the Tromp that challenging in my limited experience playing against it or observing games where it has been played.
the move recommended as favorable to Black by in the database after 11.Qf3 was 11...Ng8!
What say you to that? Forget it's the Trompowsky, just give us your assessment of the position, If it suits you.
I say computers don't make mistakes, So it must be the case that I have not yet found the correct plan Right?
:)
Last edited by Fred Henderson; Monday, 6th February, 2023, 06:37 AM.
the move recommended as favorable to Black by in the database after 11.Qf3 was 11...Ng8!
What say you to that? Forget it's the Trompowsky, just give us your assessment of the position, If it suits you.
I say computers don't make mistakes, So it must be the case that I have not yet found the correct plan Right?
:)
Some of the lines do lead to equality for instance after playing the queen back to e2 but most show white as least slightly preferable. The lines that show equality are some of the ones that black is up two pawns and has only a bishop developed. A wise grandmaster once told me that in a position where the computer says its equal and one side has a material advantage, he almost always prefers to play the side with the advantage in development. I probably faced with this position in a game would not allow the loss of a second pawn but the computer says I am wrong about that though still within a margin of error that I would be willing to live with. These evaluations are with Komodo 14 which the engine defaulted to. I have a whole series of upgrades that I need to do including moving to the newer version of chessbase, the new version of megabase and perhaps reviewing the list of engines installed and changing defaults.
Some of the lines do lead to equality for instance after playing the queen back to e2 but most show white as least slightly preferable. The lines that show equality are some of the ones that black is up two pawns and has only a bishop developed. A wise grandmaster once told me that in a position where the computer says its equal and one side has a material advantage, he almost always prefers to play the side with the advantage in development. I probably faced with this position in a game would not allow the loss of a second pawn but the computer says I am wrong about that though still within a margin of error that I would be willing to live with. These evaluations are with Komodo 14 which the engine defaulted to. I have a whole series of upgrades that I need to do including moving to the newer version of chessbase, the new version of megabase and perhaps reviewing the list of engines installed and changing defaults.
Stockfish no doubt would produce slightly different evaluations.
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