Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

[Tom O'Donnell]

I see that Iran, not exactly generally known as a chess hotbed, had some really fine results this year in the younger age groups.

Does anyone know how they achieved this?

[Caesar Posylek]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

They achieved that thru hiring Europian chess coaches/trainers, mainly from the former Soviet Union.

:)

[Tom O'Donnell]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

I figured they probably got some sort of outside help. Also, presumably some sort of government support? Did Iran decide that chess would be the means in which they would make their sporting mark on the world?

I was reading the latest issue of The Economist a week or so ago. One article discussed population growth and used Iran as an example of the sharp decline in the number of children the average couple has when women get better educated. If I recall correctly, they went from an average of something like 7 back in 1984 - only 25 year ago!! - to 2.5. If such a big change in demographics can happen so quickly then there is no telling what other smaller changes can happen in a short period of time, I guess.

[Steve Douglas]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

I figured they probably got some sort of outside help. Also, presumably some sort of government support? Did Iran decide that chess would be the means in which they would make their sporting mark on the world?

I was reading the latest issue of The Economist a week or so ago. One article discussed population growth and used Iran as an example of the sharp decline in the number of children the average couple has when women get better educated. If I recall correctly, they went from an average of something like 7 back in 1984 - only 25 year ago!! - to 2.5. If such a big change in demographics can happen so quickly then there is no telling what other smaller changes can happen in a short period of time, I guess.

I haven't read the article but I would like to point out a couple of things: a) it is very rare that "women" have children all by themselves; I believe a whole religion was founded on the notion that one had. b) I presume they took a look at expected lifespan which is usually a much greater determinant (chances are if the kid drops off the twig at the age of 3 "the woman" will try again); and then there's always the issue of war....

Steve

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

If I recall correctly, they went from an average of something like 7 back in 1984 - only 25 year ago!! - to 2.5. If such a big change in demographics can happen so quickly then there is no telling what other smaller changes can happen in a short period of time, I guess.

If you check population growth over the centuries, I don't think the numbers support much in the way of education and population growth. I would think it would support what I read in Genesis 1:28.

Besides, in this country the more kids a person has the more money the government gives them.

[Tom O'Donnell]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

From my reading, the article seemed to suggest that:

1) Better educated women have a greater say in how many children they are going to have. I guess if you can leave the guy who insists you are going to be a babymaking factory, and still have a decent income on your own, you are more likely to do so.

2) That (surprisingly to me, at least) the average number of children women wanted (as opposed to had) seemed to be relatively consistent across pretty much all nations (roughly 2-2.5). I guess women with more education are more likely to be equal economic contributors and therefore more likely to have their reproductive demands met.

In any event, since the article was in The Economist, not so surprisingly it was mainly concerned with two economic points, as far as I could tell:

A) the world's population is likely to stabilize as more and more countries - now roughly half - are at or below replacement levels of 2.1 per couple; therefore no need to panic about the planet's population reaching much more than say ten billion. That there will be problems but that everything will ultimately be okay, etc. BTW, I don't subscribe to point A, just for the record. ;-)

B) that countries like Iran are in a sweet spot, demographically speaking. They have a small percentage of elderly people draining resources; a large percentage of people (including women) in their earning years, and a (relatively, compared to previous generations) small percentage of people not yet at their earning years. Of course this is only a temporary condition, but in the next 20 or so years this could mean big growth for their economy and standard of living.

Getting back to the original question, I wonder if this is the reason that Iran's chess appears to be improving so rapidly. People can now afford to have someone teach their kid chess, ballet, soccer, whatever ... rather than have seven kids and none of them get much instruction in anything, maybe not even reading or writing. But hey, I wasn't at the tournament and maybe those who were heard or saw something that suggests something totally different.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

They achieved that thru hiring Europian chess coaches/trainers, mainly from the former Soviet Union.

I heard that they are hiring coaches too, and not only from CCCP. After some digging: "Super-GM Nigel Short, Iran Team Trainer " http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4538

Their official website with google translation to English:
http://translate.google.com/translat...hl=en&ie=UTF-8
"Third team business team in the world, after Russia and China!" :)

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

From my reading, the article seemed to suggest that:

I didn't read the article. Did they say where they got the figures?

Most of the figures I see on birth rates have EST (estimated) beside them and are per 1,000 of population. Not by couples. I take figures which have ACT (actual) beside them more seriously. In any case, they are talking crude birth rate.

Likely the figures do not include the highly educated people who leave Canada for better opportunities in the U.S. and have their children in that country.

I've noticed when there is a widespread electrical power outage which lasts 12 to 18 hours there is a baby boom around 9 months later. That, I think, has more to do with priorities on what use to put your time to doing, than level of education. Educated people don't like to be bored. :)

All I know about Iran is they have oil the U.S. wants, they have a nuclear program the U.S. is against and that there is no future in upsetting the U.S. of A.

You realize there are many financial incentives for people in this country to have children. They can take up to one year maternity/paternity leave although they don't get EI for the entire 12 months, I don't think. If they decide to take a few years off work to raise kids the Canada Pension is credited for X number of years per child. Tax incentives. When I was looking after staffing in a department of over 200 people, there were people who came back from maternity leave with only a few months until they went off again.

In any case, I never took things like money into consideration when I was young and we were having kids. Discussing affordability is not very romantic.

My kids never got into chess, although one played in a kids postal event and they knew how to play. I always encouraged them to do the things which were of interest to them. So I went to events like ball games and music lessons rather than chess tournaments where I could also play, which was OK.

[Jonathan Berry]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

When Armenia became independent after the fall of ye olde CCCP, they looked around at their neighbours, not all of whom they've consistently had good relations with, over the millenia, and decided to make overtures to Iran. Wasn't Asrian a coach in Iran before his tragic death?

Concerning birthing incentives, a highschool classmate of mine wrote for the Globe and Mail. We didn't know each other well, but on one of my rare visits to the Globe I dropped in on her and she told me that as soon as she got permanent status, she had four (count 'em) babies under the Globe's generous contract provisions. I guess the "good news" is that today, over two decades later, she's still writing for them. In the bad old days, a woman might simply lose her career.

The tendencies that Tom reported, sound entirely plausible to me.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

When Armenia became independent after the fall of ye olde CCCP, they looked around at their neighbours, not all of whom they've consistently had good relations with, over the millenia, and decided to make overtures to Iran. Wasn't Asrian a coach in Iran before his tragic death?

Concerning birthing incentives, a highschool classmate of mine wrote for the Globe and Mail. We didn't know each other well, but on one of my rare visits to the Globe I dropped in on her and she told me that as soon as she got permanent status, she had four (count 'em) babies under the Globe's generous contract provisions. I guess the "good news" is that today, over two decades later, she's still writing for them. In the bad old days, a woman might simply lose her career.

The tendencies that Tom reported, sound entirely plausible to me.

I don't know much about Iran, like I told Tom, and what he says is plausible.

The thing with statistics is we have to know how they are calculated. Also the circumstances. At this time Canada has an aging population so a crude birth rate is less meaningful than if the population had a higher percentage of people of child bearing age. There is talk of the strain of the baby boomers on the social net. While there was a baby boom after the war, the families didn't necessarily have more than 2.5 children per family. The thing was it was concentrated to a few years.

You're right about your friend and the benefits of today as opposed to years ago. When we had our first one, my wife was expected to resign and did. She worked for a health insurer. Had she not had to resign she would likely have got on with OHIP as they took over health insurance. Anyhow, when I took on the CCCA administration, the workload was heavy. I held down a full time job. My wife used to answer mail, process memberships, type out the tournaments I paired, typed the bulletin onto the stencils (remember those things) and talked to whoever happened to phone wanting to know things. Some older members used to call every month or two to chat. When the kids got older she went back to working.

I think it would be short sighted for a newspaper to let someone go for that kind of reason. The way I see it, these days a lot of employers don't seem to have much loyalty to the employees and a lot of employees don't have much loyalty to employers.

Every year someone from the federal government used to come with me for two weeks or more to spot check my work. We were looking at percentage errors, standard deviation and so forth. Lots of money riding on 1 or 2 percent so the errors had to be close to zero. I've come to the conclusion when it come to government statistics, the statistics are anything the government says they are.

[Tony Boron]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

... Anyow, when I took on the CCCA administration, the workload was heavy. I...

Gary,
I thought this would be the thread where I would congratulate you for making it through a thread without mentioning an aspect of correspondence chess... :)

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Question for the Players/Coaches at the WYCC Re: Iran

Gary,
I thought this would be the thread where I would congratulate you for making it through a thread without mentioning an aspect of correspondence chess... :)

I think chess in Canada was at its peak when the CFC and CCCA were working together in that the players were moving between the two federations. Certainly the CCCA membership peaked in those days but Jonathan would have to confirm if the CFC membership also hit high numbers.

I don't really recommend correspondence chess for Canadian players these days. The tough international competition and competitiveness, along with what seems to be the Europeans superior computer talents makes them difficult to defeat. In addition, I find some decisions being made by the ICCF to be incomprehensible.

Would you prefer a stimulating discussion on the topic of the French Winawer defence? :)