why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

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  • why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

    I have talked to my friend Eric who has an excuse for why his tournament hasn't been rated about 5 weeks after it was completed. It involves the complexities of swisssys, a lazy program the CFC has adopted, putting a gun to the heads of tournament directors who don't know how to use the system.

    But what is the excuse for Les Bunnings active tournament report not being in several weeks later? Is it the same problem?

    I paid about $170.00 with rating fees to join the R.A chess club this year, the first time I've done this in my 13 years in Ottawa. For all of that I only expect that ratings will be calculated within a reasonable time, understanding that the holidays can be busy.

    The reason it means so much to me is because I'm a professional chess teacher and I rely on my rating to get me business. Maybe these tourneys don't even change my rating but again, I paid well to join these CFC tournaments.

    Les, please get cracking. Eric is working on things, I can only hope that these circumstances are abberations and not a regular occurance or I will be joining another club next year

  • #2
    Re: why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

    Originally posted by Daryl Bertrand View Post
    The reason it means so much to me is because I'm a professional chess teacher and I rely on my rating to get me business. Maybe these tourneys don't even change my rating but again, I paid well to join these CFC tournaments.
    Very amusing post!! You lead the reader to think that an increase in your active rating from 1645 will cause people to come crashing down your door begging for lessons!!!

    I almost thought you were being serious, and then I looked at your CFC rating and realized you must be joking. No self-respecting "professional chess teacher" really cares about their chess ratings, especially active... nor do their students.
    No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it.

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    • #3
      Re: why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

      Jordan, your post is also amusing. I'm surprised you make reference to my active rating as your last encounter was a loss to Justin Drover, all of 1643 rated, netting you a whopping 1311 performance rating!

      For the record I don't care about my rating from a personal standpoint but it does draw in a few critical extra lessons for me each year with tournament strength players. But you were right that I was being a bit tongue in cheek, just trying to light a fire under a couple butts!
      Last edited by Daryl Bertrand; Thursday, 14th January, 2010, 07:14 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

        I know! I've never had a rating change in a reasonable amount of time. I have to wonder why the process isn't more automated? It should be as simple as filing some CFC#s into a function and hitting enter...

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        • #5
          Re: why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

          Originally posted by Daryl Bertrand View Post
          Jordan, your post is also amusing. I'm surprised you make reference to my active rating as your last encounter was a loss to Justin Drover, all of 1643 rated, netting you a whopping 1311 performance rating!

          For the record I don't care about my rating from a personal standpoint but it does draw in a few critical extra lessons for me each year with tournament strength players. But you were right that I was being a bit tongue in cheek, just trying to light a fire under a couple butts!
          Daryl,

          If you had any idea of what you were talking about, I would respond. But you don't because you have no idea what happened in the game between me and Justin Drover.
          No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it.

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          • #6
            Re: why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

            Originally posted by Dan Sachs View Post
            I know! I've never had a rating change in a reasonable amount of time. I have to wonder why the process isn't more automated? It should be as simple as filing some CFC#s into a function and hitting enter...
            In defense of the CFC (just in case some might think the CFC has been screwing up with processing ratings), the process does work quite well. Swiss Sys is very easy to use. Much better than another piece of software that I used previously. Generating the tournament report for the CFC from Swiss Sys requires virtually no effort and then once it is e-mailed off to the CFC, the turn around at the CFC office is very quick. I've never encountered a case where if I send in the report by a Tuesday of a week where it isn't rated by the Thursday.

            What can go wrong? The TD can neglect to promptly submit the results. Or more likely there are participants in the tournament that have lapsed CFC memberships. Until those are resolved, the tournament will likely not be rated.

            Long story short, as long as the TD does his/her work properly, the system put in place by the CFC works. In my opinion it is a big step forward from where TD's were manually submitting results.

            Steve Karpik
            Scarborough Chess Club

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            • #7
              Re: why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

              Hi Darryl:

              Just saw your post. While I do not have the full story regarding the Auttumn Frost, in the Case of Les Bunning, I know that immediately after the Active Championship Les was flying down to Florida for a few weeks. We was going to submit the tournament on his return, and I know that this was going to be his first time trying the electronic process. It's entirely possible that it has not been submitted yet. I'll try to contact Les to see if he is back and if he needs any assistance.

              Having submitted a couple of tournaments myself now, my experience has been that the best way to use SwissSys is to actually run the tournament with it to generate the pairings after each round. However many TDs prefer to run the tournaments manually, as it gives them more freedom to deal with the vagrancies of casual tournaments, such as pick-up tournaments. Such was the case with Eric and Les. Unfortunately if they then try to report the result with SwissSys, they have to jump through hoops to get SwissSys to create the pairings the way they actually happened instead of the way SwissSys thinks they should have happened.

              For those people with this problem I recommend using Swiss Assistant instead, also available on the CFC website. In that program, you simply enter the pairings and results, and the software simply checks the results for validity.

              Bottom line, I recommend SwissSys to RUN tournaments, Swiss Assistant if you want to manually run tournaments and just submit crosstables. It makes life much easier.

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              • #8
                thanks for the info Garland and Steve

                I know Eric was having difficulties because his tourney was a round robin. This is a very intelligent man and the CFC prez so if he has problems then swiss sys is not a very easy program. I like Garlands idea to use a seperate program in some instances. Thanks guys for your intelligent input.

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                • #9
                  Re: why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

                  Originally posted by Daryl Bertrand View Post
                  I paid about $170.00 with rating fees to join the R.A chess club this year
                  I myself would just consider what a club's membership fee is, since I would join the CFC anyway, in order to have my tournament games rated, whether played on weekends or at the CFC-rated club of my choice. So when considering whether to join the RA, I myself would not really 'throw in' the $43 Ontario CFC membership cost and the cost of CFC rating fees for any club events that are CFC rated.

                  Joining a club without it's games at all being CFC-rated may be cheaper, but it's not what I prefer. An RA Chess Club membership is about $90, with the RA charging a larger portion of this than the RA Chess Club (however one may at the same time join other non-chess clubs at the RA, paying only each club's fee for each club joined).
                  Last edited by Kevin Pacey; Tuesday, 19th January, 2010, 03:37 PM.
                  Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
                  Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer

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                  • #10
                    total costs are not optional

                    Hi Kevin. In order to play at the R.A chess club I needed all of those fees to be paid. If the CFC fees were optional I would not include them. In addition to all those fees I have to pay rating fees every tourney! Then the director can go on vacation and not input the results?? This is very vexing for a poor person who sacrificed so much for the chance to play. All the same your point is taken Kevin, and I will try to use my R.A and CFC memberships outside of the chess club to make them more worth while.

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                    • #11
                      Re: total costs are not optional

                      Originally posted by Daryl Bertrand View Post
                      Hi Kevin. In order to play at the R.A chess club I needed all of those fees to be paid. If the CFC fees were optional I would not include them. In addition to all those fees I have to pay rating fees every tourney! Then the director can go on vacation and not input the results?? This is very vexing for a poor person who sacrificed so much for the chance to play. All the same your point is taken Kevin, and I will try to use my R.A and CFC memberships outside of the chess club to make them more worth while.
                      Were you expecting the TD to delay his vacation just to submit the results? As another poster has pointed out, to keep the rating fee to ONLY $3, the TD must submit the results via electronic submission.

                      SwissSys and the Assistant program are incredibly hard to use software and make doing even simple things very difficult. I am sure you could volunteer to submit the ratings for the next tournament and I bet your offer would be accepted.

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                      • #12
                        SwissSys - Difficult to Use?

                        Originally posted by Kerry Liles View Post
                        SwissSys and the Assistant program are incredibly hard to use software and make doing even simple things very difficult.
                        Hi Kerry:

                        Just wanted to point out that the Scarborough CC pairings administrator, who prepares the submission of tournaments to the CFC, does not agree. Steve Karpik in a post above stated:

                        " In defense of the CFC (just in case some might think the CFC has been screwing up with processing ratings), the process does work quite well. Swiss Sys is very easy to use. Much better than another piece of software that I used previously. Generating the tournament report for the CFC from Swiss Sys requires virtually no effort and then once it is e-mailed off to the CFC, the turn around at the CFC office is very quick. I've never encountered a case where if I send in the report by a Tuesday of a week where it isn't rated by the Thursday.

                        What can go wrong? The TD can neglect to promptly submit the results. Or more likely there are participants in the tournament that have lapsed CFC memberships. Until those are resolved, the tournament will likely not be rated.

                        Long story short, as long as the TD does his/her work properly, the system put in place by the CFC works. In my opinion it is a big step forward from where TD's were manually submitting results. "

                        Bob

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                        • #13
                          Re: why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

                          In the good old days we received our ratings every two monthlys with the opportunity to receive monthly updates if we subscribed to The Northern. People seem to want instant gratification these days.

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                          • #14
                            Re: why do I pay the Ottawa R.A club again?

                            I haven't used SwissSys very much, I find it a very clumsy program. I can't imagine why it was chosen as the CFC standard.

                            However, it does work. I suppose its idiosyncracies become less irritating as users become familiar with it.

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                            • #15
                              Re: SwissSys - Difficult to Use?

                              Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
                              Hi Kerry:

                              Just wanted to point out that the Scarborough CC pairings administrator, who prepares the submission of tournaments to the CFC, does not agree. Steve Karpik in a post above stated:

                              " In defense of the CFC (just in case some might think the CFC has been screwing up with processing ratings), the process does work quite well. Swiss Sys is very easy to use. Much better than another piece of software that I used previously. Generating the tournament report for the CFC from Swiss Sys requires virtually no effort and then once it is e-mailed off to the CFC, the turn around at the CFC office is very quick. I've never encountered a case where if I send in the report by a Tuesday of a week where it isn't rated by the Thursday.

                              What can go wrong? The TD can neglect to promptly submit the results. Or more likely there are participants in the tournament that have lapsed CFC memberships. Until those are resolved, the tournament will likely not be rated.

                              Long story short, as long as the TD does his/her work properly, the system put in place by the CFC works. In my opinion it is a big step forward from where TD's were manually submitting results. "

                              Bob
                              Well, I certainly would not call it good software. When it works it is sufficient, but getting it to do some things is incredibly difficult (for example, input tournament results after the fact - as someone else point out the 'assistant' version is better for that). I found using it for round robins a real PITA.

                              Manually sending results quickly becomes impossible for anything more than a 6-player RR. I wonder if the author of that program has ever used it to do real work - not just testing...

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