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In today's Toronto Star, Olympics section, page S11.
CHESS ON ICE
Curling is a game of precision, subtle strategy; good delivery of curling stone is essential.
I just saw that the Winter Olympics has Mens Curling and then it has Womens Curling. I guess that in addition to processing logic differently (chess), men and women also throw rocks down an ice rink differently and sweep brooms differently.
If they had men vs women in curling, who would win more consistently?
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
If they had men vs women in curling, who would win more consistently?
Men. Our larger bodies are better to manhandle those man-sized chunks of granite, especially the heavy shots, without giving up any subtlety on the finesse shots. What do you expect, wasn't the game invented by a man?
Men also have a better geometrical sense (women are better at arithmetic than men are) so the male skip will also tend to "call" a better game.
I'm talking about at the highest skill levels. A moderate women's rink will crush a novice men's rink like a peanut.
Nonetheless, I think that watching--and listening to--women curl is the more entertaining pastime. I remember watching a national final a few years ago. Both the skips were named Jennifer. If it were a chess game, the brunette had a positional squeeze on her opponent, which went all the way down to the last rock on the last end, when the skies opened for the blonde. It was almost painful as she fretted and called a time out and consulted with her coach and fretted. Call it theatre. There was only one shot possible, but the margin of error was pretty close to zero. Eventually they decided to try the only shot (that isn't always the case!), she made it (in other words, the blonde Jennifer made a perfect shot and won the game when any less-than-perfect shot would have lost), and everybody went nuts. It doesn't get any better.
Edit. Of course. I wasn't the only person to see this. Somebody has posted a 24MB .mp4 on youtube. This is a synopsis of the whole game. If you just want the winning shot, a smaller file is also available, best for hard-core curling aficionados.
Last edited by Jonathan Berry; Wednesday, 17th February, 2010, 06:19 PM.
I just saw that the Winter Olympics has Mens Curling and then it has Womens Curling. I guess that in addition to processing logic differently (chess), men and women also throw rocks down an ice rink differently and sweep brooms differently.
If they had men vs women in curling, who would win more consistently?
They had a $100,000. Skins tournament in 2009 at Casino Rama. There was Jennifer Jones, Glenn Howard, Randy Ferby and Kevin Martin. All World Champions at one time or another.
Jones was knocked out in the first round. She won only one end and $1,500.
I watched the game and was surprised the women were not a bit more competitive.
I've watched a bit of curling this week and I don't think it's accurate to characterise it as "chess on ice." It's much more like "shuffleboard on ice."
I've watched a bit of curling this week and I don't think it's accurate to characterise it as "chess on ice." It's much more like "shuffleboard on ice."
I don't mind watching it though, gives me time to get some quick catnaps. But I'll still take chess on a chessboard!
That would make you ignorant about curling, because the characterization is accurate. The strategic aspect of curling is very much like chess and more prevelant where it is played best, in Canada. What you are watching is the world event where some of the teams have a limited strategic knowledge. The Japanese women for example are very athletic but don't have a clue strategically. In a limited run event athleticism can win you some games ( especially against other like minded teams ), but it rarely wins you championships.
Comparing curling to shuffleboard is like comparing chess to tic-tac-toe. Certainly you are welcome to try to downgrade activities; the majority of Canadians view chess as a board game and nothing more, and there are less and less people playing chess in a competitive setting. If the chess tournaments end you'll have more time to watch curling, but your doctor would recommend you get off your butt and play it instead.
Chess is like curling but with a lot less physical activity. I would say chess needs every help it can get here in North America to rebuild its credibility as a sporting competition rather then just a rec room game.
Perhaps with increased success you can become the Russ Howard of chess in Canada.
The only question would be will there be enough players, enough promotion, and enough people caring one bit about chess that it even matters. Might be better to be a curler to be quite honest.
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Saturday, 20th February, 2010, 10:37 AM.
Yesterday Denmark utilized a chess skill, recognizing a hopeless position after six ends and resigning. Offhand I can't think of any other physical sport, except boxing, which allows that option.
Yesterday Denmark utilized a chess skill, recognizing a hopeless position after six ends and resigning. Offhand I can't think of any other physical sport, except boxing, which allows that option.
That would make you ignorant about curling, because the characterization is accurate. The strategic aspect of curling is very much like chess and more prevelant where it is played best, in Canada. What you are watching is the world event where some of the teams have a limited strategic knowledge. The Japanese women for example are very athletic but don't have a clue strategically. In a limited run event athleticism can win you some games ( especially against other like minded teams ), but it rarely wins you championships.
There is strategy in curling but to compare to the richness and depth of the chess is ridiculous. Curlers wrongly assume that chess players calculate position one move ahead like Richard Reti joked in his famous quote. Strategy of chess is much more than, if I throw my stone here than can my opponent throw double? Unfortunately we cannot change naive people perception of chess because most of curlers incapable calculating two moves ahead much less three or four or five and so on. Even Checkers has 10 times more complex strategy than curling on a professional level.
A computer beat me in chess, but it was no match when it came to kickboxing
Well, I think we shouldn't discount the elements of strategy and tactics in curling too much. Chess is richer and deeper in both of course, which is not surprising in that one end has only 8 full moves in total. I mean, if Chess ended at move 8 it would likely be less rich on both matters.
One advantage of curling is that the strategy and tactics are generally discussed out loud. I've heard players discuss a tactical result after three full moves or six half moves. That's about as far as I generally calculate in a chess game, though on occasion I've gone quite a bit deeper.
As for strategy, well ends often start with "guards" deliberately placed well outside the rings, and stones are often placed so that later stones can be hidden behind them. I have seen games where one side purposly throws their rock through the house even where there was stuff that could be hit there, for strategical reasons. A good team will have a general "plan" of attack or defense for each end. Often a team will deliberatly choose not to score a single point but rather to have a blank end and keep the hammer.
And of course part of the strategy in selecting a shot will be how hard or easy it is and what are the probabilities of success and the risk of failure. Tha't something we don't have to consider in chess.
So I much prefer chess, but it's worth while watching curling because it is not all just about how fast you go or how high you can jump.
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