Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

[Bob Gillanders]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

What an incredibly short-sighted blunder this would be! Take all the money contributed by people through purchase of life memberships and direct conrtibutions and squander it on various "good ideas". The CFC has an abysmal past record for financial management. Why take the only asset that hasn't been pillaged and hand it over for further profligate spending? The Foundation hands over $7,000 to $9,000 annual income to the CFC and will continue to do so forever. That is so obviously the right course of action in my humble opinion.

Well said, Paul. However, I do think that Gary asks a valuable question, one we should not be afraid to explore. The question really is "what is the best use of Foundation assets to support Chess in Canada?". The Foundation history has been to provide a secure long term source of revenue for the CFC. This position has strong support amongst the CFC Governors.

The CFC does struggle financially to provide just the basic services for the membership, FIDE obligations, newsletter, and rating services. Very little is left to promote the game. I suggested some time ago that Foundation funds might be used to fund a promotion campaign. Perhaps a membership drive, or just to raise public awareness of chess. For instance, a modest $ 15,000 program spread over 5 years (ie $ 3,000 per year), targeted to increase CFC memberships. I could support such an initiative, as long as it well conceived and communicated to the governors.

Paul, I do share your fear of funds being pillaged on some "good ideas". With the CFC financial track record, the onus certainly is on them to demonstrate that any plan is worthy of funding.

Pissing it away in prize money or appearance fees would certainly be obscene. Building the membership base must be the priority.

Just to be clear - I voted NO on the poll.

[John Brown]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

If the foundation is giving the CFC money back each year then why not use that money to Sponsor a CFC rated (everyone must become CFC members to participate) as a Provincial/ Territory event. That way you are promoting Chess in each location and hopefully drawing in more members. The donation to the event does not have to great thr TD/ Organizers can drum up the rest via more sponsors or entry fees. But in order for the CFC members to get some pay back from the CFC . The CFC would only give out their sponsor ship if the tournament
is for CFC members.
IN the case of Quebec the CFC can also Sponsor but you'd have to be a member of CFC to play.

Just an idea as I feel right now the Foundation payments are not used to promote chess.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

Perfectly correct. Never give in to a bully.

I love seeing a union boss shout "bully". Would you like to discuss picket line discipline and other such matters so people can decide who the bully really is?

I posted the picket line song in the other thread.

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

I love seeing a union boss shout "bully". Would you like to discuss picket line discipline and other such matters so people can decide who the bully really is?

Gary loves to speak about things he knows nothing of.

I was never a "union boss". I was president of CUPE Local 410 for many years, but I was no boss, and indeed my members showed me who was really boss by firing me on two occasions, as was their perfect right. After a suitable period I was elected again because, basically, no one else wanted the job and I did a slightly better than mediocre job.

And of course I never "shouted bully", I didn't shout at all. Gary uses the classic techniques of verbal abuse that every pretty well other bully uses, so he is merely exposing himself for what he is. I have had to deal with many of them, unfortunately, and I recognize them fairly quickly these days.

While I was a member. a span of 33 years, local 410 only ever had one very short and one longer strike, the latter while I was president. The first one lasted an hour, in one branch. In the second we held rotating walkouts for a few months before we were locked out.

Only one member, so far as I know, ever crossed our lines and he suffered no violence. He was in fact allowed across and then a formal trial was scheduled. Eventually we reached a mutually satisfactory agreement and the incident was over at that point, without any trial. Anyone on our lines who acted violently against anyone would have been disciplined if it had come to the Strike Committee's attention.

Gary never lets his ignorance stand in the way of making silly claims that he cannot by any means support with actual evidence, so he is, of course, only being true to his usual rather nasty form.

If you want to be a "union boss" all you really have to do is join a union and attend meetings. Then when the first AGM comes volunteer for one of the executive jobs no one else volunteers for. There will be several because being on a Union executive is a fair amount of work and there are few willing to do it for next to no pay. Then do a fair job at that for a few years and you will get a chance to be Vice President.

That's the best job because there's less work in that position than any of the others. Then when the Pres steps down, as they will fairly soon, stick your hand up and volunteer. Chances are you'll get in by acclamation. And you will then be what Gary calls a "union boss". Have fun, but don't expect to make any money, or have much power.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

If you want to be a "union boss" all you really have to do is join a union and attend meetings. Then when the first AGM comes volunteer for one of the executive jobs no one else volunteers for. There will be several because being on a Union executive is a fair amount of work and there are few willing to do it for next to no pay. Then do a fair job at that for a few years and you will get a chance to be Vice President.

That's the best job because there's less work in that position than any of the others. Then when the Pres steps down, as they will fairly soon, stick your hand up and volunteer. Chances are you'll get in by acclamation. And you will then be what Gary calls a "union boss". Have fun, but don't expect to make any money, or have much power.

Is the CFC a union?

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

The CFC outsourced all its office functions and the Executive Director position.

It was not done to thwart any unionization ( though with CFC's track record on employee relations re exective directore, I'm sure they felt unionization would have been handy).

But I'm one of the ones who never agreed with former president David Lavin's outsourcing of CFC. And I will be shooting to have the contract not renewed ( no criticism of EKG nor Gerry - it is merely a question of the best administrative design for CFC ).

I think CFC should have an Executive Director " employee ", so CFC can have absolute control of priorities.

Bob

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

After a suitable period I was elected again because, basically, no one else wanted the job and I did a slightly better than mediocre job.

No surprise there.

And of course I never "shouted bully", I didn't shout at all. Gary uses the classic techniques of verbal abuse that every pretty well other bully uses, so he is merely exposing himself for what he is. I have had to deal with many of them, unfortunately, and I recognize them fairly quickly these days.

You poor hard done by boy. Ler's look into some of the other things you have written.

Only one member, so far as I know, ever crossed our lines and he suffered no violence. He was in fact allowed across and then a formal trial was scheduled. Eventually we reached a mutually satisfactory agreement and the incident was over at that point, without any trial. Anyone on our lines who acted violently against anyone would have been disciplined if it had come to the Strike Committee's attention.

Now what kind of a trial was that? I'm not aware that any court of law would try a union member who was being bullied by a union to not work. Are we talking a kangeroo court here? Something like we would find in a third world country. Would you mind explaining your trials so we can better understand? So we don't mistake it for thuggery.

You don't feel the person to be tried felt intimidated and bullied. Were you able to impose the death penalty in your trial? What was the limit and the consequences? What was the appeal process? An explanation and some clarifications would be helpful.

Why was no "formal trial" held? Was it part of a "no retaliation" agreement with the employer?

I think some of us would like to understand how what you have described isn't bullying.

Gary never lets his ignorance stand in the way of making silly claims that he cannot by any means support with actual evidence, so he is, of course, only being true to his usual rather nasty form.

If you want to be a "union boss" all you really have to do is join a union and attend meetings. Then when the first AGM comes volunteer for one of the executive jobs no one else volunteers for. There will be several because being on a Union executive is a fair amount of work and there are few willing to do it for next to no pay. Then do a fair job at that for a few years and you will get a chance to be Vice President.

That's the best job because there's less work in that position than any of the others. Then when the Pres steps down, as they will fairly soon, stick your hand up and volunteer. Chances are you'll get in by acclamation. And you will then be what Gary calls a "union boss". Have fun, but don't expect to make any money, or have much power.

By you definition above even a union vice-president is a union boss.

Since when is the ability to hold trials for members not power?

I guess people who read all this will decide if it's you or I who is the bully.

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

Now what kind of a trial was that?

A trial under the constitution of the Canadian Union of Public Employees. The maximum penalty for any offense is expulsion from the union. The CUPE Constitution is available on line so feel free to do a little research of your own.

Since when is the ability to hold trials for members not power?

Well, it isn't the union executive's power. A trial may be held only after a majority vote by the membership at a properly constituted meeting.

I guess people who read all this will decide if it's you or I who is the bully.

Yes, and they will also decide if it's you or I who speaks about what he is entirely ignorant of.

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

Have you noticed that almost all of the posters to this thread are not CFC members? (OK - one of the memberships expires at the end of today)

Not to mention that this thread has gone far off-topic. Do we need "the one and only union" thread initiated?

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

Have you noticed that almost all of the posters to this thread are not CFC members? (OK - one of the memberships expires at the end of today)

Actually I'd be happy to join up again if I could find a link at the CFC website that would let me use my credit card to do so.
I'm not saying it isn't there, but if it is I haven't managed to find it.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

Hi Ed:

1. Go to the Homepage and click on " CFC Main Website ";
2. On the sidebar menue on the left, click on " Membership and Rating Fees ";
3. There it shows there is the option to pay by PayPal : " Purchase by PayPal - select province below, then click link for details ". Below that is a drop-down menue to pick your province.
4. the next page gives you the choice of the type of membership you want;
5. Click on " Buy Now " and you get the credit card information page to fill out ( when I tried though " add to cart ", it said it couldn't display the page - CFC needs to look into that ).
6. Click after completion and you've got your membership.
7. If you don't want to use paypal, the membership page has an option : " Purchase by credit card - please email your phone number to info@chess.ca and you will be called for your payment ".

You should soon be another new/renewed happy CFC member !!

Bob

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

Actually I'd be happy to join up again if I could find a link at the CFC website that would let me use my credit card to do so.
I'm not saying it isn't there, but if it is I haven't managed to find it.

http://www.chess.ca/membership.shtml
and you need to go through all process... (i've not tried this time)


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Bob was faster and more detailed.

[Peter McKillop]

Re: Should the CFC try to dismantle the Chess Foundation?

I don't intend to read through every post in this thread so my apologies if I'm recycling someone else's point.

My understanding is, after allowing for the net proceeds from the sale of the CFC's commercial condo and the $25k or so that dropped into the Foundation's lap from the Toronto clubhouse fund, that virtually all of the remaining funds in the Foundation's possession represent payments received from life members. How do you propose to pay for services provided to life members if not from their life membership payments?